Draco and Dumbledore WAS: Re: Dumbledore Does Lie - Sort Of
dumbledore11214
dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com
Mon Oct 16 22:42:42 UTC 2006
No: HPFGUIDX 159811
Betsy:
> It's odd, because Dumbledore has come across as dismissive of
> Slytherins as the next guy, but I think Dumbledore is genuinely
> worried about Draco's well-being. I think Dumbledore doesn't force
> the issue for precisely the reasons Magpie and Steve (IIRC) have
put
> forth. He's waiting for Draco to come to a realization of his own.
Alla:
That's the thing, hehe - any argument about Dumbledore being
dismissive of Slytherins after what he had done for this one
Slytherin, who tried to kill him, just makes me laugh.
Betsy:
> IOWs Dumbledore is showing the same sort of consideration for
> Draco's well-being that he's shown for Harry. Even though the
> presence of both boys at Hogwarts can and does put members of the
> student body in danger, Dumbledore sees them both as worth the
> risk. I mean, obviously Dumbledore puts in some safe-guards
> (generally in the form of one Severus Snape), but he's still taking
> a risk.
Alla:
The thing is Harry's absence in Hogwarts would have put WW in much
greater danger IMO, since Harry is its supposed saviour, so while
technically I agree with you - Harry's presence in Hogwarts puts
students in increased danger, I think they really would not have
wanted to not have Harry there.
With Draco though - yeah, that is a risk all right IMO.
Betsy Hp:
> But I don't think the risk is based solely on legal
considerations.
> I think it goes deeper than that. It's interesting but in many
ways
> I think Dumbledore showed a similar love for Draco on the Tower
that
> he's shown for Harry in the past. And I think that's what made the
> risk worth it. If that makes any sense.
Alla:
Sure it does, if we concentrate on Draco's story, then it is a
touching story of the teacher who leads the idiotic child away from
evil IMO( if that is where Draco is headed, still won't be 100%
sure, but as I said before I am pretty convinced of that), but if we
think about other students, I do not know if it makes any sense at
all.
And again,Harry is IMO in a very different position. I mean he loves
Hogwarts and he considers its his home and has dearest friends, etc,
but do you think that if he was offered to take his friends away ( in
hypothetical sort of way) and never come back, he would be terribly
upset?
Harry may put Hogwarts students at risk, but at the same time I
sincerely doubt that anybody would let Harry to just walk away from
WW.
I mean, he would not do it - after all he is a hero who supposed to
save them all, I just do not think that Dumbledore was taking **equal
risks** in regards to Draco and Harry, because without Harry, um WW
appears to be doomed so far, no?
> > Alla:
> >
> > Actually, I would like **one** example in canon that shows that
> > Dumbledore has a history of knowing what is best?
>
> Pippin:
> He defeated Grindelwald. He removed the Stone from Gringotts
> before it could be stolen by Quirrell. He knew that Voldemort
> would return and was prepared to take action immediately.
> He knew that Hagrid was innocent in Riddle's day and saved him
> from Azkaban. He recognized that Sirius was innocent and could
> be saved if Harry and Hermione used the time turner. He recognized
> that Moody was a fake and rescued Harry. He realized that Kreacher
> was lying and rescued Harry and the other Order members. He fought
> Voldemort in the MoM and rescued Harry -- is that enough?
Alla:
Erm.... my question was where in canon it shows that Dumbledore **has
a history of knowing what is best**.
So, let's go through your examples - he defeated Grimdewald, indeed -
if we will learn that he indeed did without hurting many people in
process that is
indeed a good one.
He removed the stone from Gringotts - you are joking, right? He
brought the stone to Hogwarts to *give Harry a chance to fight
Voldemort** ( paraphrase) - NO, I do not think that this is what was
best from within the story.
He knew that Voldemort would returned, erm and he failed to recognise
the DE in Hogwarts and actually prevent Harry from being tortured?
Not again, not in my book.
He knew that Hagrid was innocent and what exactly he did to show this
to the world? What exactly he did to make sure Hagrid completes his
education?He took him in as a groundkeeper, not nearly enough IMO.
And yes, indeed he recognised that Sirius was innocent, took him
thirteen years. Thank goodness for Sirius escaping I guess.
He recognised that Moody was fake? Erm, after Harry was tortured.
Sorry, too late, way too later.
Oh, and no, Harry's heart saved him per Dumbledore himself IMO.
So, that leaves Grindelwald maybe, I guess that counts since I asked
for one example, but still really really not impressive IMO.
Pippin:
>
> Dumbledore may not have always acted as quickly as we would like,
> but he still acted before anybody else did. QED.
>
Alla:
He did not act quickly enough, when he and only he was in the
position to act IMO. That in my book translates in **not** having a
history of knowing what is best, at all.
JMHO,
Alla
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