Respecting the Dursleys( was:Re: Hi everyone -- banning the books)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 159863

J from A:
> The twins and others have said that Molly knows how to 'push all 
> their buttons'. Well, in my opinion she KNOWS her family well so 
she 
> knows what buttons to push! My mom knew exactly what buttons to 
push 
> with me. Still does, drives me nuts! But she loves me, is good to 
me 
> and wants the best for me. She does what she does out of love and 
> concern for me. She is human and makes mistakes. No mother is 
> perfect but she's pretty darn close. Strong willed and determined, 
> but sweet and loving too. 

Magpie:
No, I didn't say "the Twins and others" say Molly knows how to push 
their buttons, I said that many *readers* find that Molly pushes 
their buttons and they can't stand her.  And those people are 
disagreed with by people with exactly the same argument you're 
giving here--My mother drives me nuts but she loves me and wants 
what's best for me, etc.  My point wasn't that Molly is a bad 
mother, but that not everyone views her with the same amount of 
affection.  Fans often wind up accusing each other of projecting 
their own mother issues onto Molly, and they're probably sometimes 
perfectly right.  Only that goes both ways. 

J from A: 
> Petunia is suspicious, rude, intolerable of anything slightly not 
> normal, and so wrapped up in her own little world, she is missing 
> out on life! It's truly sad! Her whole world revolves around just 
> her little niche in it. She doesn't have a life outside of #4 
Privet 
> Drive, so she spies on the lives of others from her window looking 
> out on the world that she has chosen to isolate herself from. She 
> could go out, play bridge with the girls, make friends and have 
tea. 
> But she closes herself into her little cocoon. 

Magpie:
I also didn't say Petunia is a good parent.  I said she loved her 
son.  Just as you defend Molly Weasley from criticism by comparing 
her to your mother Dudley might defend Petunia from this description 
(and I'm sure there are plenty in fandom who could offer a negative 
description of Molly as well, if not as negative as Petunia, since 
after all, Molly has never locked a child in a cupboard!).  The 
Dursleys display bad behavior in all kinds of ways.  The way they 
raise their child is often bad.  But I see now signs that they don't 
start out loving their child, that they don't love him now. 

J from A: 
> Any mother who is halfway decent would give their life for their 
> child. I think the books play up Lily's sacrifice for Harry way 
too 
> much. I agree that Petunia would more than likely give her life 
for 
> Dudley. But I don't agree that Petunia (or Vernon)is a good 
parent - 
> at all. 

Magpie:
I hope you're not suggesting that I *do* consider Petunia a good 
parent!

J from A:
If my sister called me a freak, 
> I would certainly not be all too fond of her! Petunia's refusal to 
> accept anything 'different' and 'abnormal' speaks volumes about 
the 
> kind of person she is. 

Magpie:
Or it speaks to her reaction to something in her life.  You yourself 
said that she'd closed herself in a cocoon. This may not just be the 
kind of person she is but her basic personality + events of her life 
that she reacted to this way.  If Petunia was made to feel inferior 
for being ordinary, she may think she's righting that wrong by 
making the ordinary the only good thing to be. Not that I'm saying 
she did this well, if that's what she was doing.

J from A: 
> I have a son with Autism. He is about as 'different' from 
> society's "norm" as can be. He thinks differently, perceives 
> differently and I swear it even seems sometimes like he's from 
> another planet his ways are so 'alien'! I had to learn to speak 
his 
> language, operate according his customs and burst through those 
> language and perception barriers around him to get into his world 
> and his head and slowly bring him out of himself and into our 
world. 
> It's been a slow process, but he's doing well. 
> 
> When I read of the Dursley's shunning and mistreating Harry, and 
> looking down their noses at anything/anyone different 
or 'abnormal', 
> I think of my son and how people (like the Dursleys) treat him 
> because he is different. I've encountered them many times in my 
> life. They are pathetic! How totally ignorant and stupid they 
are!! 
> I just hope that eventually they stop procreating and the world is 
> rid of those kinds of close minded idiots!

Magpie:
I agree--though Harry isn't really abnormal at all by society's 
terms.  Sorry, it's just I find it hard to talk about the book's 
early claims that Wizard=different and Muggle=ordinary with much 
conviction because it's just not really true.  Wizards are 
superifically weird to Muggles but their society isn't all that open 
to the different.  If it was then not-all-that-eccentric Luna 
wouldn't be considered so strange, and Neville wouldn't be dropped 
out of windows to bring out his magic.

But of course Petunia's treatment of Harry is particularly cruel--
he's a little boy living in her house and she tells him he's 
repulsive every day of his life. I wouldn't be so sure that she 
would have treated Dudley that way had he had something "wrong" with 
him--she might have thought he was perfect just the way he was, 
because he was hers.

J from A:
> One could argue that Harry is a constant reminder to Petunia of 
her 
> parents' 'supposed' favor of Lily. But that is so very petty and 
> small of her! To think that she and Vernon would mistreat a child! 
> It's just so horrible, and they are horrible people for doing so, 
in 
> my opinion. And to allow Dudley to treat Harry so horribly too is 
> twice as horrible of them! 

Magpie:
Yes, but again you're talking about their abilities as parents to 
raise children, not questioning whether they love their child. You 
can love your child and be a terrible parent; you can be a good 
parent and not love your child. All kinds of people are parents.  

J from A: 
> If they couldn't properly care for Harry the way he desperately 
> needed them to, they should have sent him to an orphanage where he 
> could have been given to people who desperately wanted a child! Or 
> contacted Dumbledore and insisted he find someone else to care for 
> Harry. They should never have kept him. Living with them has been 
> horrible for Harry!

Magpie:
Well, actually they couldn't do that because Dumbledore needs Harry 
at their house.  They can't just send him to an orphanage. Had they 
absolutely refused to take him in DD would have had to make other 
arrangements, but he seems find with their barely complying to the 
deal to protect Harry and doesn't interfere with their treatment of 
him.

J from A:
> Molly Weasley IS a good mother figure. She has a wonderful heart 
> for others. She is supportive of her husband and shows genuine 
> affection for him , both to him and in front of her children and 
> others. She is human so she'll make mistakes, but she always tries 
> to do the right thing by her kids. She adores them, the twins too! 
> She didn't approve of the Joke Shop thing and tried to steer them 
> away from it. Being a mom, I would have too! It wouldn't seem like 
a  very wise investment to me either. But she does support their 
> decision when they go against her advice as adults and open one up 
> anyway. You can show your children the way you feel they should 
go,  but when they are grown, you have to let go. Molly did.
> 
> Molly loves her children, accepting their different personalities 
> and quirks but she also disciplines them. (Like having them de-
gnome  the garden or peel potatoes without using magic or being 
grounded). > She doesn't just let them have their way. They have to 
answer to her > for their misbehavior - as well they should. She is 
a > disciplinarian, but she is also respectful and kind. Truly a 
lady! 
> 

Magpie:
This is a nice testament to the character of Molly Weasley as a fan, 
but the fact remains that plenty of readers don't see her as so 
wonderful.  I don't happen to be one of them--I'm fine with Molly.  
I don't see her as a particular role model, though.  Not because I 
have something much against her, but just she seems like a woman 
with a certain personality and this is how she mothers.  I'm so 
different from her she might as well be an alien. I tend to like her 
most at her worst, when she's at her most Petunia-ish, actually. If 
I were a kid I don't think I'd have wanted to spend much time at her 
house at all.

But that was my point in the argument--How one raises one children, 
what values one raises them with is different from whether on loves 
them or not. It just seems to draw too much of the kind of 
distinction I'd think the books counsel against--bad people can love 
their families too.

J from A:
> Concerning the 'rift' - as far as Percy is concerned, I just have 
> this gut feeling that he isn't acting of his own free will at the 
> present time. I think he is being controlled by the Imperius Curse 
> by someone who has been placed inside the ministry by the DE's.

Magpie:
I believe JKR shot this theory down.

-m