The WW as Neverland / Squib!Harry (was:Re: The Scar - 'All or Nothing'...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 160278

> >>doug:
> <snip>
> Isn't magic and wish fulfillment really an adolescent conception of
> the world? and so Harry comes of age... isn't the thought         
> that 'I'll never die' an adolescent idea? The adolescent brain is 
> very different from adult brains.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I actually *do* think Harry will need to deal fully with death.  (So 
much of the Potter books revolve around it.) But I think he'll deal 
with it head on, not metaphorically.  Because death is real death in 
these books, not a metaphorical leaving of Neverland. One of the 
first things Harry learns is that even wizards die.  The WW isn't a 
magical detachment from that particular truth. Cedric, Sirius, 
Dumbledore, Lily, James all die.  They don't become Muggles.

So rather than a Peter Pan type tale (which had *plenty* of 
foreshadowing of the need to eventually leave Neverland, and showed 
Peter, and Hook for that matter, paying a steep price for their 
immortality) I think Harry will go through a form of death and 
resurrection that helps him get a handle on what death actually is.

> >>doug:
> On the whole though, as you say it would be bittersweet, whatever
> would happen after the scar... It may be a world of childhood, a
> world of magic Harry can never get back to. Harry may be blessed   
> with an Obliviate to enable him to actually live a human life in a 
> Muggle world, so that the 'memory's' of magical power to Harry!    
> Muggle would be like a book he read, like comics, like running    
> around with a towel on your back flying.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But the WW isn't that magical in the end.  I mean, it's not a 
child's paradise.  There's unfairness, and small-mindedness, and 
fear, and all of the icky things adults have to deal with every day, 
muggle or wizard.  The WW has never let Harry off the hook, has 
never been a place where he could escape the pressures of growing 
up.  Harry is growing *within* the WW.  He's not hiding out from 
life by staying there. (Which is what Peter Pan is doing in 
Neverland.)

> >>bboyminn:
> <snip> 
> Back to the main point, what I object to is the idea that
> /IF/ Harry loses his powers, that he will be completely
> cut off from the magical world. I don't think so. He
> will still have his friends, he will still have access to
> their world.

Betsy Hp:
I agree that Harry wouldn't be automatically cut off.  His friends 
would still want to visit him and have him visit them.  But it'd be 
tough for Harry to live there and frankly I think Harry would choose 
to cut himself off.  

> >>bboyminn:
> Admittedly it will be painful for Harry to have to do this, to    
> have been so magically important and to now be dependant on others 
> for magic. But being dependant on others for magic doesn't mean    
> Harry will suddenly be helpless, pointless, or worthless.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
He'd be considered such by other wizards though.  He wouldn't be 
considered a full citizen of the WW as per their treatment of Mrs. 
Figg.  He wouldn't be able to hold office or work for either of the 
big three WW institutions in any sort of powerful position.

Harry would have a hard time turning on lights, running water, 
turning up the heat, while in the WW.  He'd have to figure out the 
old-fashioned Muggle way of doing such things.  (Building and 
maintaining fires, keeping matches on hand, etc.)

So not totally helpless, pointless, worthless.  But close enough to 
make visiting the WW a tad uncomfortable.

> >>bboyminn:
> <snip>
> Being non-magical and being associated with the magical
> world are not mutually exclusive. Look at the Dursleys,
> as much as they try with all their might to disassociate
> themselves with the magical world, they can't escape it;
> the magical world intrudes on their lives all the time. 

Betsy Hp:
Right.  And it victimizes them every single time.  Why would Harry 
choose to stick around a world that sees that sort of treatment of 
non-magical folk as okay?  Why would he put up with that sort of 
treatment if he didn't have to?  If his connection to that world is 
gone?

> >>bboyminn:
> <snip>
> Further, given that Harry, over a decade later, is still known    
> as 'The Boy Who Lived', I don't think the wizard world is so short
> sighted that they would forget the great sacrifice that
> Harry made for them.

Betsy Hp:
Considering they were calling him the *crazy* boy who lived within 
five years of his returning to them, I'm pretty darn sure their 
compassion would turn to condescension, discomfort, and probably 
distaste.  Especially since Harry would be a reminder that it was 
possible to actually lose your magical abilities.  I'd give it 10 
years tops, before public opinion turned against him.

> >>bboyminn:
> <snip>
> Finally, Harry will still be able to live a perfectly normal and   
> productive life if he loses his powers.

Betsy Hp:
Of course he would!  But in the muggle world.  And I'm betting he'd 
need to make the break a clean one to do so.

Betsy Hp (doesn't see Harry as Peter by any stretch, or Wendy for 
that matter)