Secret Keeper of Grimmaud Place/ Was: Re: Vernon's odd behavior

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 160367

---  "Jennifer Cardell Newton & Matthew Newton" 
> <onlygoofy at ...> wrote:
>
> Edis <virpshas@> wrote:
> > >But could Muggles get into a Secret-Keeper protected
> > >property?
> 
> Random832:
> > Why not? Dumbledore told them the secret, we all saw
> > that. There's no reason to think that's not enough -
> > that's how the protection works, ...
> > 
> 
> 
> onlygoofy:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm slightly confused. In HBP when Dumbledore died, the
> spell he cast on Harry lifted.  Does this also mean that
> any protections Dumbledore placed on 12 Grimmaud Place 
> was also lifted? If not, how would anyone new to the 
> Order ever find it?  Could the headquarters transfer to a
> new secret keeper?  What about those spells he placed on
> Hogwarts, is it not as well protected as before?
> 
> ...
> 
> :),
> onlygoofy
>


bboyminn:

In general, some spells are lifted when the caster dies,
and some spells are not. Remember that 12 Grimmauld Place
is still protected by spells cast by Sirius's forefathers.
Some of the spells on Hogwarts are ancient, they have 
out lived many Headmasters. Yet, the spell that held 
Harry in the 'binding' charm, was lifted. So, again,
some are lifted, some are not.

Specifically, to the nature of the Secret Keeper Charm,
JKR addressed this issue on her website -

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_poll.cfm
Q: What happens to a secret when the Secret-Keeper dies?

JKR-A:
" ...the status of their secret will remain as it was at 
the moment of their death. Everybody in whom they confided
will continue to know the hidden information, but nobody 
else. ..."

So, you are right, no new people can know the secret, 
because the now dead Secret Keeper is no longer alive to 
tell them. Clearly, this spell outlasts the Secret Keeper,
but we don't know for a fact that the Secret Keeper is the
caster of the Secret Keeper Spell. As we see with the 
Unbreakable Vow, a third party /binds/ the charm. It is
possible, though certainly not established, that we have
the subject of the secret, the Secret Keeper, and the 
'binder' of the secret. Though this third party has never
been mentioned, it is slightly possible that JKR is 
keeping that revelation until the last book. 

Keep in mind that when Dumbledore visited the Dursleys in
HBP, he had Harry spoke openly about 12 Grimmauld Place 
being the Headquarters for the Order, therefore, the
Dursleys have been let in on the Secret of that location.

As for a bit of speculation, it is still possible for
people to get into Grimmauld Place without knowing the
Secret, it's just not easy. Say, for example, that Harry
wants Neville (or some other DA Club member) to come to 
Grimmauld Place. They can't actually be told about 12
Grimmauld Place because it is protected; those words can
not be spoken, however, they could be told about Grimmauld
Square because that is not protected. So, Harry could 
tell Neville (or who ever) to be at Grimmauld Square at
1:00pm. When Neville arrives, Harry steps outside and 
leads Neville into the house. I do believe that is a 
workable solution.

I think this is also how Hermione's parents get into 
Diagon Alley. Diagon Alley is a protected magical space,
though probably not protected by a Secret Keeper Charm.
In any event, Muggles simply can't see it, but Herione,
being a magical person could see it and could lead her
parents inside The Leaky Cauldron. From there, they 
would have no trouble navigating on their own.

As far as the 'Secret' being transferred to a new Secret
Keeper, I don't think so, but that is just speculation. 
It may be possible under the right circumstances to break
the Secret Keeper Charm, though I think that would be 
extremely difficult, and at best would require special 
knowledge. Once the Charm is successfully broke, assuming
it can be, it could be re-cast with a new Secret Keeper. 

One small technicality, the Secret as quoted in the note
Harry was given that revealed Grimmauld Place to him, 
said '...the Headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix is
located at 12 Grimmauld Place...'. To some of us that 
implies that the Secret is 'Headquarters' not '12 
Grimmauld Place'. 

One could speculate that when 'Headquarters' moved, the
Secret moved with it. So, the new location of 
'Headquarters' is now the Secret being guarded. In 
otherwords, at that moment, 12 Grimmauld Place was only
incidentally the location of 'Headquarters'.

I don't think I'll get a lot of support for that theory,
but it could be true.

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn