Secret Keeper of Grimmaud Place/ Was: Re: Vernon's odd behavior

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 160389

bboyminn wrote:
> 
> In general, some spells are lifted when the caster dies,
> and some spells are not. Remember that 12 Grimmauld Place
> is still protected by spells cast by Sirius's forefathers.
> Some of the spells on Hogwarts are ancient, they have 
> out lived many Headmasters. Yet, the spell that held 
> Harry in the 'binding' charm, was lifted. So, again,
> some are lifted, some are not.
> 
> Specifically, to the nature of the Secret Keeper Charm,
> JKR addressed this issue on her website -
> 
> http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_poll.cfm
> Q: What happens to a secret when the Secret-Keeper dies?
> 
> JKR-A:
> " ...the status of their secret will remain as it was at 
> the moment of their death. Everybody in whom they confided
> will continue to know the hidden information, but nobody 
> else. ..."
> 
> So, you are right, no new people can know the secret, 
> because the now dead Secret Keeper is no longer alive to 
> tell them. Clearly, this spell outlasts the Secret Keeper,
> but we don't know for a fact that the Secret Keeper is the
> caster of the Secret Keeper Spell. As we see with the 
> Unbreakable Vow, a third party /binds/ the charm. It is
> possible, though certainly not established, that we have
> the subject of the secret, the Secret Keeper, and the 
> 'binder' of the secret. Though this third party has never
> been mentioned, it is slightly possible that JKR is 
> keeping that revelation until the last book. 
> 
> Keep in mind that when Dumbledore visited the Dursleys in
> HBP, he had Harry spoke openly about 12 Grimmauld Place 
> being the Headquarters for the Order, therefore, the
> Dursleys have been let in on the Secret of that location.
> 
> As for a bit of speculation, it is still possible for
> people to get into Grimmauld Place without knowing the
> Secret, it's just not easy. Say, for example, that Harry
> wants Neville (or some other DA Club member) to come to 
> Grimmauld Place. They can't actually be told about 12
> Grimmauld Place because it is protected; those words can
> not be spoken, however, they could be told about Grimmauld
> Square because that is not protected. So, Harry could 
> tell Neville (or who ever) to be at Grimmauld Square at
> 1:00pm. When Neville arrives, Harry steps outside and 
> leads Neville into the house. I do believe that is a 
> workable solution.
><snip>
> One small technicality, the Secret as quoted in the note
> Harry was given that revealed Grimmauld Place to him, 
> said '...the Headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix is
> located at 12 Grimmauld Place...'. To some of us that 
> implies that the Secret is 'Headquarters' not '12 
> Grimmauld Place'. 
> 
> One could speculate that when 'Headquarters' moved, the
> Secret moved with it. So, the new location of 
> 'Headquarters' is now the Secret being guarded. In 
> otherwords, at that moment, 12 Grimmauld Place was only
> incidentally the location of 'Headquarters'.
> 
> I don't think I'll get a lot of support for that theory,
> but it could be true.
<snip>

Carol reponds:
First, regarding a third party. With the Unbreakable Vow, there are
necessarily three participants, one to state the provisions of the
vow, one to take it, and one (the Binder) to cast the spell that
"binds" them to one another with chains (or ropes or snakes) of fire.
No one is being "bound," either to his word or to another person in
the Fidelius Charm. The SK merely becomes the repository of the
secret; only he can reveal it and only those he tells can know it. I
think that two people must be involved, one to cast the spell and one
to receive it; otherwise, Dumbledore could have made himself the
Secret Keeper for the Potters. I'm guessing that Lily, who is good at
Charms and is part of the secret, cast the spell that made Peter
Pettigrew the SK. With DD as Secret Keeper for the HQ of the Order, I
suppose the caster must have been Sirius Black, who owned the house,
or possibly Remus Lupin, one of the first to know about it. Again, I
don't see how DD could have made himself the Secret Keeper, but I see
no need for a third person (a "binder", only the spell caster and the
recipient of the spell, as with most spells that we see in the HP books.

Regarding the Dursleys and the secret of 12 GP, Harry was told
explicitly (through words written on a piece of paper by Dumbledore),
the Headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix may be found at 12
Grimmauld Place. *That* is the secret.

Dumbledore mentions 12 Grimmauld Place in front of the Dursleys and he
said that it was Sirius Black's house, now inherited by Harry (along
with Kreacher), and he states that the Order of the Phoenix may need
to find new headquarters, but he never states the secret in the exact
phrasing of the note to Harry. Either he's casually (and deliberately)
revealing the secret to the Dursleys for their own protection without
seeming to say anything important, or the scattered information he
provides is not the same as revealing the secret. I think the first
interpretation is more likely. Otherwise, DD had no need or reason to
reveal either the address or the existence of the OoP, a name that
still means nothing to the Dursleys, in front of them. He even,
eventually, uses the exact phrase "the Headquarters of the Order of
the Phoenix" in reference to Kreacher's living quarters (HBP am. ed.
52). Surely, the Dursleys, even Dudley, can put that information
together with the address 12 Grimmauld Place, at least in their
subconscious minds. Harry might even be able to speak the address to
them now that they've heard it from Dumbledore.

However, it seems unlikely that DD removed the other protections on
the house, including the Muggle-repelling charms. Someone else will
have to do that, or at least point out the house to them as someone
(Hermione?) pointed out Diagon Alley to the Grangers in CoS.

There must be a reason why Dumbledore gave Harry all this information
at the Dursleys rather than confiding it to him privately. The only
reason I can think of is that he anticipated their need for a refuge
once the blood protection wore off. (The Kreacher test gave them a
taste of what they're in for though that wasn't its primary purpose.)

Carol, wondering why neither Harry nor Sirius Black ever ordered
Kreacher to take a bath and change to a clean loincloth