witches of the world (was: Lavender vs Hermione)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 160397

> Hickengruendler:
> 
> She also gets interviewed by Umbridge during Hagrid's inspection. 
I 
> wanted to throttle her while reading the part, even though I don't 
> like Hagrid as a teacher and think he should have stayed 
> groundskeeper.

Magpie:
I like Pansy--though I don't find her a character to admire. I think 
it's because I see vulnerability in her despite her nastiness (I 
find her friendship with Draco believable as well). The last time I 
genuinely *felt* vulnerability from Hermione was in PS/SS when Ron 
says she's got no friends. (The "I see no difference line" seems 
like it should make me feel that, but I don't.) GinnyII in the last 
two books is even worse in this regard--I find it hard to even 
believe in her as anything but a fictional construct. Pansy seems 
genuinely insecure about Hermione and other girls, and makes 
mistakes in her attempts to be feminine herself. 


> Tesha:
> Knocks them out?  are you refering to the Crabbe and Goyle 
incident?
> Knocks them out? They grab cupcakes floating in mid air and fall
> asleep. Steals their bodies? Invades their privacy? Come on!

Magpie:
Um, yes. They're given knock out drops and Harry and Ron Polyjuice 
themselves into them to get into their common room and pretend to be 
them to listen to private conversation. That's a perfectly accurate 
description of what happens.  I can't believe if Harry lived through 
a similar experience it wouldn't be seen that way. (Interestingly, 
Crabbe and Goyle aren't the only student who ever find themselves 
temporarily borrowed by someone else in CoS.)

Tesha:
> 
> The worse that happens is that they have their shoes borrowed 
without
> their permission - and the purpose of the whole exercise is to find
> out what Draco knew about the CoS...
> 
> and who was the only one hurt? Hermione! She paid a high price for
> trying to help save the school.

Magpie:
I doubt that if this was done to the Trio (even to find out what 
Harry knew about the CoS) it would be considered such a minor 
thing.  I imagine Hermione herself would be *furious* if an enemy 
did this to them--as would anyone--and Hermione would probably enact 
some sort of revenge along the lines of her revenge on Rita Skeeter 
or Marietta. Sure none of the Slytherins are physically hurt (and 
Hermione's being hurt is genuinely all from her own actions, part of 
the risk she agrees to with her own plan) and the biggest thing that 
happens to them is that the Malfoy's secret chamber becomes known to 
Harry and Ron (something that is certainly a big deal for him and 
would be a bigger deal to us if it were one of the Trio's secrets), 
but I don't see how this makes it such a great thing to justify this 
kind of thing so much there's nothing questionable about it. As I 
said, I get what Hermione's intentions were. There's more to right 
and wrong than just identifying the reason the person in question 
had for doing something. There's a reason some things need to apply 
to everyone, not just the good guys. Only being able to see things 
from the pov of what Hermione wants or what the good side needs in 
the short term isn't, imo, a workable ethical system.

Charles:
That only proves that they did not do so, not that they *could* not.

Magpie:
I guess I assumed if they could they would have--at least Madam 
Pomfrey. Though that doesn't change Hermione's continued choice to 
not undo the hex--or perhaps her having created a hex she couldn't 
undo.

Charles:

In HBP, Hermione mentions that the marks on Harry's hands were still
visible and that others knew what they were. Besides that, we know
that Umbridge used what I have seen called a blood quill on other
students, notably Lee Jordan, so it would be common knowledge amongst
the students what she was doing.

Magpie:
Personally, I think it's very possible the quill isn't known by many 
people during the year. Harry knows what the marks on Lee Jordan's 
hands are and feels solidarity with him. But actually, I don't think 
that necessarily informs Marietta's actions one way or the other. 
Students are probably capable of rationalizing a lot of punishments 
that are over the line if they want.

Charles:
Actually, Harry has suffered all his life from something
frighteningly similar to what Marietta did to activate that jinx. It
was *betrayal* that activated the jinx, not Hermione's nastiness.

Magpie:
I meant that Harry would never be subjected to acne, a humiliating 
and repulsive punishment.  Harry's suffering is far cooler. I would 
never suggest anything but Marietta's actions activitated the jinx.  
It's just that the jinx's origins are equally clear.

Charles:
But in
the DA jinx I happen to support her, because she did tell the
prospective DA members that they were signing an agreement to not
inform anyone what they were doing.

Magpie:
Actually, one of the problems I have is that I think she implies 
something a lot less formal than she really means.  Had she made it 
more clear I think her hex would have been more useful.

-m