Secret Keeper of Grimmaud Place

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 160496

---  "Jordan Abel" <random832 at ...> wrote:
>
> Steve/bboyminn
> > Generally speaking though, I don't see how what I 
> > suggested violates the Secret Keeper Charm in any 
> > way, and again, bringing someone to Grimmauld Place 
> > could easily be done in a way that doesn't reveal
> > the secret.

> Jordan/Random:
> 
> But allowing people to bring someone in is a security 
> problem _in and of itself_. The whole point of the 
> fidelius charm is so that you don't have to trust 
> everyone who's told the secret. After all, if someone
> who's not the secret keeper could bring anyone they want
> to the location, the secret wouldn't have to be revealed
> to bring Voldemort to Godric's Hollow (which also tells
> us that if this were possible people wouldn't be 
> assuming Sirius ... was responsible for this 
> happening)
> 
> If anyone can bring anyone to the location, the Fidelius
> charm becomes absolutely pointless.
> 
> -- 
> Random832
>

bboyminn:

Either your not seeing my whole point, or I'm missing part of
yours.

Yes, anyone could bring anyone anywhere, but what is the
point? True someone could have brought someone to Godrics
Hollow, but what good would it do if the second someone
still couldn't find the Potters? Yes, someone who knew the
secret could have brought Voldemort to Godrics Hollow 
while not revealing the secret to him, but Voldemort 
still could not have found the Potters. 

DO VERY MUCH, keep in mind that we are not talking about
someone and someone, we are talking about Harry and
Neville. You don't risk the secret to people you don't
trust, which implies that you only reveal it to people
you DO trust. Someone could have lead Neville to Grimmauld
Square and guided him inside Grimmauld Place. How does 
that compromise security? Neville can't reveal the 
location to anyone. Even if Neville is coerced into 
leading someone to Grimmauld Square, he still can't 
reveal the secret, and without the secret the house itself
can't and won't be revealed. So, again where is the
compromise of security? Leading Voldemort to Godrics 
Hollow doesn't reveal the Potters, and Neville coerced
into leading someone to Grimmauld Square doesn't reveal
the Black House.

But back to the key point, you don't invite people into
the house if you don't trust them. You don't grab random
people of the street and say, 'Hey, want to see something
neat?'. You don't track down Death Eaters, drag them to 
the house and say, 'Check this out'.

The security is maintained because in my example, it is
Neville that is being brought into the house, not a
stranger or an enemy.

Keep in mind that Kreacher went to Narcissa and gave her
information about Harry and Sirius. Now Narcissa could be
pretty dense (mentally and intellectually) but she would
have to be near brain-dead not to realize the Kreacher is
the Elf of the Black family. Combine that with Kreacher's
knowledge of Sirius and Harry, and even a moron can put
two and two together and arrive at the probable occassional
occurance of Harry and Sirius at the Black House. Yet,
Narcissa can't reveal that secret. She can't say 'Sirius 
is at his parents house' because the spell prevents her
from speaking those words. 

I don't think she can even do it by inference. For 
example, she can't say to Voldemort or other DE's 'Hang 
around Grimmauld Square and you will gain valuable 
information'. In a sense that is indirectly revealing the
secret and I AM well aware that seems to go against what
I orginally said. But not quite by my way of thinking.
Keep in mind that I THINK the Fidelius Charm is related
to 'fidelity'. Harry telling trusted Neville to wait
at Grimmauld Square until Harry comes to meet him doesn't
voilate 'fidelity'. Telling Neville that with no context
doesn't mean anything to Neville, it doesn't reveal 
anything. However, Narcissa could and would only do this
for nefarious purposes which very much does breach 
'fidelity'. 

Harry could just as easily have Neville wait at a near
by news stand or tea shop, and bring him from there. 
Again, when they get close, Harry could blindfold Neville,
and lead him inside. People could be brought into the 
house without breaching fidelity and without revealing 
the secret. That's all I'm saying. 

Steve/bboyminn