[HPforGrownups] Re: Secret Keeper of Grimmaud Place

[Kemper]

No: HPFGUIDX 160556

> > > bboyminn wrote:
> >
> > >> ... speculation, it is still possible for people
> > >> to get into Grimmauld Place without knowing the
> > >> Secret, it's just not easy. ... can't ... be told
> > >> about 12 Grimmauld Place ..., however, they could be
> > >> told about Grimmauld Square... So, Harry could tell
> > >> Neville (or who ever) to be at Grimmauld Square at
> > >> 1:00pm. When Neville arrives, Harry steps outside
> > >> and leads Neville into the house. ...


> Random832 replied later:
> > But allowing people to bring someone in is a security problem ....
> ... After all, if
> someone who's not the secret keeper could bring anyone they want to
> the location, the secret wouldn't have to be revealed to bring
> Voldemort to Godric's Hollow (which also tells us that if this were
> possible people wouldn't be assuming Sirius [as the secret keeper] was
> > responsible for this happening)
> >
> > If anyone can bring anyone to the location, the Fidelius charm
> becomes absolutely pointless.
> >
> >
> > ibchawz responded:
> > I don't see that bringing someone to the location makes the Fidelius
> > Charm pointless. Harry could bring Neville, Luna, or whomever to 12
> > GP without divulging that it was the Headquarters of the Order of
> the Phoenix.
> >
> > IIRC, someone stated that LV could have pressed his nose against a
> > window at the Potters' house in Godric's Hollow and not be able to
> see the Potters inside, unless the Secret Keeper told him the secret.
> I think that the secret location of the OotP would be the same.
> Someone could physically be at 12GP without know that it was HQ.
> >
> Carol added:
>
> I think that ibchawz is right. If 12 GP were invisible to Bellatrix,
> why would Dumbledore have been afraid that she'd inherit it and claim
> it? She'd have to be able to see it and enter it, or she'd pose no
> danger to the Order. And yet Harry couldn't see 12 GP until he knew
> the secret, so how could Bellatrix? Okay, I'm confused again. (I won't
> even ask how Narcissa could talk with Kreacher, whom she must know to
> have been her aunt and uncle's house-elf and to live at 12 GP, without
> figuring out that 12 GP is Order HQ--unless the Fidelius Charm
> contains a built-in Confundus or Obliviate to keep people who used to
> know information that's now secret from remembering it. Okay, I did ask.)
>
>...
> I personally prefer having them already know the secret to having
> Harry sneak them in through a door they may not be able to see with
> Order members around that they can't see or speak to because they're
> not in on the secret.



Kemper now:
Random is right.

Harry could not possibly guide/sneak/lead anyone into 12 Grimmauld
Place because in doing so he would be _revealing_ the secret location
of the HQ for the OotP with explicit or implicit complicity.

It's the _revealing_ that's the issue.  The only one who can _reveal_
the location of HQ in any way (writing, voicing or pointing).

Yes... Harry could bring Neville to 10 or 14 Grimmauld Place, but he
could in now way imply where 12 Grimmauld Place was located.

Concerning Carol's other thoughts... I would guess that 12 Grimmauld
Place is Unknowable, or at least Forgetable, as it is Unplottable.  So
those who once had an Aunt that lived there, would no longer be able
to recollect just where the Aunt lived (only remembering the great
times they had with each other baking biscuits and talking about boys
and how good they taste, hot and gooey fresh from the oven)

Kemper