Hermione's Hex vs Snape on the Tower LONG (was:Re: Views of Hermione)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 160618

> Betsy Hp:
> This is a fascinating question, Alla.  And one I've had to think 
> about for a bit, because I do feel so very differently about each 
> case.
> 
> [Totally OT moment: Another reason I pulled out of the discussion 
on 
> Friday was the Battlestar Galactica episode that night perfectly 
> illustrated everything I found repulsive about Hermione's 
actions.  
> Very hard to watch and I knew I'd devolve into hysterics if I 
> posted.  Seriously kick ass show, and Roslin is so very cool (and 
> beautiful and graceful and loving and wise). End OT]
> 
> I've ruled out character bias.  It's the hex that turned me 
against 
> Hermione.  And it took HBP, when we first get a hint that the hex 
> might be permanent, for that to occur.  So I certainly didn't go 
> into the scene looking for reasons to dislike Hermione.
> 
> So why does the hex strike me as an example of human behavior at 
its 
> most repulsive and the Tower scene, well, doesn't?
> 
> To start, I tend to approach the Tower scene as Snape being 
> Dumbledore's Man.  But, honestly, even if Snape viciously cut 
> Dumbledore down as a hidden agent of Voldemort, I'd still rank the 
> hex as worse.  
> 
> Which is interesting, because it means that the context *still* 
> doesn't matter to me.  Which means I must really see a difference 
in 
> the two actions themselves.  And I think the difference is this: 
one 
> is trying to masquerade as justice; the other is an act of war.  
> 
> THE HEX AS JUSTICE:
> 
> There have been attempts within this discussion to say that the DA 
> was formed in a time of war.  That those who joined up were 
actually 
> signing on as little soliders, that they really were forming a 
> private little army.
> 
> I don't buy that argument.  Yes, the threat of Voldemort's return 
> made learning DADA an imperative.  But no matter what Hermione may 
> have felt in her heart, she told her recruits that they were 
signing 
> up for a study group.
> 
> "...the point is, are we agreed we want to take lessons from 
Harry?" 
> [OotP scholastic hardback p.343]


Alla:

I will answer you with Rebecca's post:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/?yguid=112798769

She IMO brings a lot of canon, which makes it impossible for me to 
understand how DADA cannot be considered created in the act of war.


Rebecca:

For a study group, it sure has a lot of importance, doesn't it? This 
is
where we differ, I think, because I see the following and wonder if 
it
really is a study group to pass an OWL:

'You want to pass your Defence Against the Dark Arts OWL too, 
though, I
bet?' said Michael Corner, who was watching her closely.


'Of course I do,' said Hermione at once. 'But more than that, I want 
to be
properly trained in defence because. because." she took a great 
breath and
finished, 'because Lord Voldemort is back.'


'Well, they've forbidden me to get on the wrong side of Umbridge, 
too,' said
Cho, drawing herself up proudly. 'But if they think I'm not going to 
fight
You-Know-Who after what happened to Cedric -'



'Oh, please,' said Zacharias Smith, rolling his eyes and folding his 
arms.
'I don't think Expelliarmus is exactly going to help us against
You-Know-Who, do you?



"The attack might have succeeded had it not been for the fact that 
they
unwittingly chose to stage the attack right outside a compartment 
full of DA
members, who saw what was happening through the glass and rose as 
one to
rush to Harry's aid. By the time Ernie Macmillan, Hannah Abbott, 
Susan
Bones, Justin Finch-Fletchley Anthony Goldstein and Terry Boot had 
finished
using a wide variety of the hexes and jinxes Harry had taught them, 
Malfoy
Crabbe and Goyle resembled nothing so much as three gigantic slugs 
squeezed
into Hogwarts uniform...."

Interestingly enough, that group served to bring together those from
different houses - and some of those relationships remain even after 
school,
at least that year. And you're right, it wasn't the Order of the 
Phoenix
for Harry, or any of them, even Hermoine. However there is a lot of 
focus on
Voldemort being back and the students comment on being able 
to "fight"
against him. My comparison is for ethics sake, not saying that the 
DA was
the equivalent. The Order is based on such values as trust, loyalty, 
courage
and honor, and as Lupin says:

"The Order is comprised only of overage wizards,' he said. 'Wizards 
who have
left school,' he added, as Fred and George opened their 
mouths. "There are
dangers involved of which you can have no idea, any of you. I think 
Molly's
right, Sirius. We've said enough."



Betsy:
> 
> It's also been suggested that Hermione set the hex up as a 
defensive 
> tactic.  Canon clearly tells us it's a punitive move.
> 
> "Believe me, if anyone's run off and told Umbridge, we'll know 
> exactly who they are and they will really regret it." [ibid p.354]


Alla:

But, but but the defensive part meaning that this would be the 
defense against Umbridge, no? That they will know and Umbridge will 
not be able to do anything to them?

Betsy: 
> So, coming at the hex from the point of view (my pov <g>) that it 
> does not take place in a war footing and that it was created to be 
> punitive, the hex becomes a repulsive mockery of justice.  It 
stinks 
> of lynch mobs and kangaroo courts.
<SNIP>


Alla:

Of course if you not consider DADA creation to be the part of war of 
course I understand your POV.

The thing is as I said above - I cannot grasp how it can be viewed 
anything else but that, but I of course respect your right to view 
it that way, I am just regretting that I cannot place myself in your 
shoes :( ( that is when debate has a cool conclusion to me, when I 
get were opposing POV comes from) 

Right now canon screams to me - those kids are in war against 
Umbridge and prepare themselves to fight against Voldemort, so I am 
unable to reduce it to just study group, that is just not there to 
me.

But in any event, say you would agree that this was an act of war 
and defensive measure, would you then view Hermione's actions 
differently, just as you view Snape's?

Alla