They had to know about PP (WAS Re: Secret Keeper of Grimmaud Place)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 160669

ibchawz responded:
> > Another possibility that I have seen on this list would be that 
> > the Fidelius Charm would be broken when Peter Pettigrew ratted 
> > (pun intended) the secret to Voldemort.  The Potters were no 
> > longer protected from Voldemort by the secret after PP told 
> > Voldemort.  To state it in another way, Peter's infidelity broke 
> > the Fidelius Charm.  Of course, this is speculation on my part, 
> > since there is no canon to support the breaking of the Fidelius 
> > Charm in any fashion.
 
Carol:
> Yes, that's essentially what I think. The name of the charm provides
> the clue: fidelis -e [trusty , steadfast, faithful]; m. as subst.,
> esp. pl., [confidants, faithful friends]. Adv. fideliter, 
> [faithfully; securely, without danger]. fidelitas -atis f. 
> [faithfulness , trust, fidelity]. http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-
> bin/lookup.pl?stem=fidel&ending=
> 
> So, essentially, to break the faith placed in him as Secret Keeper 
> by revealing it to the very person the secret was supposed to 
> protect the Potters from broke the spell. 


SSSusan:
I am assuming that what you, Carol and ibchawz, are proposing has, as 
its key component, that the telling of the secret is done WITH 
MALICE? that the person ratting knows he is providing the information 
to someone who should not have it, rather than simply passing the 
information on to someone breaking the charm?

Otherwise, when the location of GP was written on a paper and given 
to Harry, that would too have broken that FC.  

If I'm following your suggestion correctly, I wonder what would 
happen if a person gave out the information without *realizing* it 
was to a person with evil intent?  That is, the SK wasn't betraying 
intentionally, wasn't acting purposely with infidelity.  I'm assuming 
again that it's the intentional passing of the secret to a known 
enemy which you're saying would break the FC?

Otherwise, I'm thinking that if there were a spy in the Order, who 
intended harm to Harry/the Order, then passing the location on to 
that individual, while not realizing s/he was the spy, would have 
broken *that* FC.


Carol:
> Of course, by the time that Voldemort kills James and Lily and the 
> house blows up, there is no secret left to keep. "The Potters are 
> hiding in [address] Godric's Hollow" is simply no longer true. 
> they'er not hiding anywhere. Two are dead and one can be found by 
> anyone who comes by, even a Muggle, which is why Hagrid had to get 
> there even before Sirius Black (who already knew the secret and 
> therefore couldn't be alerted by suddenly knowing it again)
> or anyone else arrived.

SSSusan:
This makes more intuitive sense to me somehow -- that 
the "disproving" of the actual statement the Secret Keeper has held 
onto [for instance, "The Potters are in hiding in Godric's Hollow"] 
is what breaks the Charm.


Carol:
> It has to do with the secret being first breached--fidelity 
> violated--and then the elements of the secret (the Potters and 
> their hiding place) either ceasing to exist or ceasing to
> be protected. Essentially, the moment Wormtail betrays the Potters,
> the secret is no longer a secret. Either then or when the house was
> blown up, the charm failed altogether.

SSSusan:
So, for clarification, you're suggesting it might take BOTH the SK's 
infidelity regarding the secret *and* the change in the condition 
specified in the secret for it the protection to be broken?

Siriusly Snapey Susan