They had to know about PP (WAS Re: Secret Keeper of Grimmaud Place)

[ibchawz]

No: HPFGUIDX 160684

> SSSusan wrote:
> I am assuming that what you, Carol and ibchawz, are proposing has, 
as 
> its key component, that the telling of the secret is done WITH 
> MALICE? that the person ratting knows he is providing the 
information 
> to someone who should not have it, rather than simply passing the 
> information on to someone breaking the charm?
> Otherwise, when the location of GP was written on a paper and 
given 
> to Harry, that would too have broken that FC.  

ibchawz responds:

That is exactly what I meant.  Peter Pettigrew divulged the secret 
to Voldemort knowing full well what Voldemort's plans were.  Peter 
knew that Voldemort wanted to kill the Potters and by telling 
Voldemort the secret, enabled those events to occur.

If simply telling someone the secret broke the charm, it would not 
be very useful, unless the Fidelius Charm must be re-cast after each 
time the secret is revealed.  I don't think that this is very 
likely.  As complex as the charm is (per Professor Flitwick), I 
think it is a "one time and done" type of charm.


> SSSusan wrote:
> If I'm following your suggestion correctly, I wonder what would 
> happen if a person gave out the information without *realizing* it 
> was to a person with evil intent?  That is, the SK wasn't 
betraying 
> intentionally, wasn't acting purposely with infidelity.  I'm 
assuming 
> again that it's the intentional passing of the secret to a known 
> enemy which you're saying would break the FC?
> 
> Otherwise, I'm thinking that if there were a spy in the Order, who 
> intended harm to Harry/the Order, then passing the location on to 
> that individual, while not realizing s/he was the spy, would have 
> broken *that* FC.

ibchawz responds:
If the spy in question acted on this information and tried to kill 
the Potters, I believe it would break the charm.  The spy in 
question would not be able to reveal the secret to anyone else, even 
though he was in on the secret.


> Carol:
> > It has to do with the secret being first breached--fidelity 
> > violated--and then the elements of the secret (the Potters and 
> > their hiding place) either ceasing to exist or ceasing to
> > be protected. Essentially, the moment Wormtail betrays the 
Potters,
> > the secret is no longer a secret. Either then or when the house 
was
> > blown up, the charm failed altogether.
> 
> SSSusan:
> So, for clarification, you're suggesting it might take BOTH the 
SK's 
> infidelity regarding the secret *and* the change in the condition 
> specified in the secret for it the protection to be broken?


ibchawz responds:
This make sense to me.  If Peter telling Voldemort the secret, 
automatically broke the secret, others would have instantly 
remembered where the Potters were hiding.  They could have come to 
the Potters' aid before the attack.  As events transpired, Hagrid 
and Sirius arrived after the fact.

Perhaps, it isn't just the telling with malice of the secret to the 
enemy that breaks the charm.  The enemy may have to act on the 
information before the charm is broken.  In this case the charm 
would not be broken until Voldemort showed up at the Potters' 
doorstep.

ibchawz