They had to know about PP (WAS Re: Secret Keeper of Grimmaud Place)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 160747

Carol earlier:
> > <snip> The name of the charm provides the clue: fidelis -e [trusty
, steadfast, faithful]; m. as subst., esp. pl., [confidants, faithful
friends]. Adv. fideliter, [faithfully; securely, without danger].
fidelitas -atis f. [faithfulness , trust, fidelity].
http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=fidel&ending=
> > 
> > So, essentially, [PP's breaking] the faith placed in him as Secret
Keeper by revealing it to the very person the secret was supposed to 
protect the Potters from broke the spell. <snip>
> 
> 
> SSSusan:
> I am assuming that what you, Carol and ibchawz, are proposing has,
as its key component, that the telling of the secret is done WITH 
> MALICE? that the person ratting knows he is providing the
information to someone who should not have it, rather than simply
passing the information on to someone breaking the charm?
> 
> Otherwise, when the location of GP was written on a paper and given 
> to Harry, that would too have broken that FC.  
> 
> If I'm following your suggestion correctly, I wonder what would 
> happen if a person gave out the information without *realizing* it 
> was to a person with evil intent?  That is, the SK wasn't betraying 
> intentionally, wasn't acting purposely with infidelity.  I'm
assuming again that it's the intentional passing of the secret to a
known enemy which you're saying would break the FC?
> 
> Otherwise, I'm thinking that if there were a spy in the Order, who 
> intended harm to Harry/the Order, then passing the location on to 
> that individual, while not realizing s/he was the spy, would have 
> broken *that* FC.
> 
Carol responds:

Yes, *if* simply revealing the secret to Voldemort (the person the
Potters are hiding from) was sufficient to break the spell, it had to
be done with malicious intent. Peter as SK knew why and from whom they
were hiding. The name of the charm implies that they placed their
faith in him and he violated that faith. No other Order member can
give Voldemort or his DEs that information. Only the SK can "break
fiath" and consequently destroy the Fidelius Charm--if that's how it
works.

Carol earlier:
> > Of course, by the time that Voldemort kills James and Lily and the 
> > house blows up, there is no secret left to keep. "The Potters are 
> > hiding in [address] Godric's Hollow" is simply no longer true. 
> > they'er not hiding anywhere. Two are dead and one can be found by 
> > anyone who comes by, even a Muggle, which is why Hagrid had to get 
> > there even before Sirius Black (who already knew the secret and 
> > therefore couldn't be alerted by suddenly knowing it again)
> > or anyone else arrived.
> 
> SSSusan:
> This makes more intuitive sense to me somehow -- that 
> the "disproving" of the actual statement the Secret Keeper has held 
> onto [for instance, "The Potters are in hiding in Godric's Hollow"] 
> is what breaks the Charm.
> 
Carol:
I agree with you, actually. But the name of the charm makes me think
that a breach of faith is also involved. Maybe it's only that the
Potters could not have been killed and their house destroyed *unless*
PP violated their trust?

 
> Carol earlier:
> > It has to do with the secret being first breached--fidelity 
> > violated--and then the elements of the secret (the Potters and 
> > their hiding place) either ceasing to exist or ceasing to
> > be protected. Essentially, the moment Wormtail betrays the
Potters, the secret is no longer a secret. Either then or when the
house was blown up, the charm failed altogether.
> 
> SSSusan:
> So, for clarification, you're suggesting it might take BOTH the SK's 
> infidelity regarding the secret *and* the change in the condition 
> specified in the secret for it the protection to be broken?

Carol again:

I'm just exploring two possibilities. The only thing I'm certain of is
that the Charm was broken or dissolved *either* by PP's telling
Voldemort or by the destruction of the secret itself (it was no longer
true) which followed from PP's betrayal. All I'm saying is that
Dumbledore could send Hagrid to Godric's Hollow and Hagrid could find
Harry in the ruins of the house without either of them ever having
been told the secret because by that time the Fidelius Charm was
broken. I'm just not sure whether it was broken by the betrayal or by
the subsequent actions. Certainly, once the Potters were dead and
their house destroyed, there was no secret left to keep.

I also believe (but can't prove) that DD provided the hiding place in
the first place but "forgot" about it as a result of the Fidelius
Charm. When the charm was broken, he "knew" it again, and consequently
knew that the Potters had been betrayed and were either in grave
danger or dead. However, it would, IMO, have required Snape's faded
Dark Mark to inform DD that Voldemort had been defeated (just
realizing that the Fidelius charm had been broken wouldn't tell him
that), which could only have been done, inadvertently, by Harry, the
Prophecy Child. From there, I suppose DD used his instruments to
determine what really happened (Lily's sacrifice). And, of course, he
immediately sent Hagrid to rescue Harry, making sure that he didn't
turn him over to the supposed SK Sirius Black or anyone else (without
actually telling him why he suspected Black).

It's possible that DD took a memory from Baby!Harry's head once Harrry
was safely in his hands and explored it in the Pensieve, which would
explain how he knew about Lily's sacrifice, but that's related more to
the missing twenty-four hours than to the Fidelius Charm. 

Carol, just speculating and trying to fit the pieces together using
etymology