Umbridge as tyrant / Twins leaving Hogwarts(WAS:Re: Hermione's Hex ...)

[Charles Walker Jr]

No: HPFGUIDX 160736

> > Nikkalmati:
> >
> > Absolutely, I think the pattern is clearly there in JKR's
writing.   Step
> > by
> > step, the decrees, the official backing, the brown shirts etc.
Nobody
> > does
> > anything out of fear of retribution and then comes the spying,
the
> > betrayal.
> > It  fits.
>
> Magpie:
> Yes, except Umbridge is putting more restrictions on students at
the school
> where she is headmistress.  She's not taking away anyone's rights
as
> citizens (nor is she targetting an ethnic group).  As students they
already
> lack rights they have on the outside.   So imo she's a bit more
Dean Wormer
> than Der Fuhrer.  On a smaller scale, of course, we see the
parallels to a
> tyrranical leader and we also see the result--not nobody doing
anything out
> of fear of retribution and betrayal, but chaos.  Everyone refuses
to do
> anything and there's no discipline at all. Umbridge has no
control.<snip>

Charles:

Umbridge is at Hogwarts as part of an attempt to purge the WW of
people who are not loyal to Cornelius "I don't want it to be true so
it ain't" Fudge. She is trying to create a generation of people who
are loyal to the ministry over anything else, and does not care what
gets in her way. While not explicitly stated in canon, but obvious
from her treatment of certain students, e.g. Neville Longbottom whose
grandmother is openly supportive of DD rather than MoM, parental
politics plays a role in what happens to Hogwarts students.

Not taking rights away? You're kidding, right? Let's start with her
DADA classes. She actively tries to prevent Hogwarts students from
learning self-defense, knowing that outside of school there are
situations where they could need to defend themselves, Voldie or no.
Self-defense is a basic human right, stemming from the right to life.
Next, we have the fact that all mail incoming and outgoing is being
read by her or her IS. That means that the entire student body of
Hogwarts is effectively cut off from their parents. Harry is
subjected to torture for speaking his mind. There she has taken away
his freedom of speech. Now, I don't know about Britain or indeed the
rest of the world, but in America students retain their rights rather
than "shed them at the schoolhouse gate" (I can't remember what court
case that's from right now, but someone around here probably knows.)
as long as they don't disrupt the school in trying to practice those
rights. While Harry did disrupt the class, he was not punished for
that, but rather the content of his opinion.

> Nikki:>
> > Nikkalmati (hurray for the twins, who did not desert the DA, but
carried
> > the
> > battle to new heights and new  territory)
>
> Magpie:
> Didn't they just drop out and start their business to make money
for
> themselves?  I don't see that as exactly carrying the battle to new
heights
> and territory.  The next year they were actively working against
Hogwart's
> defenses.

Charles:

"Just drop out" Hmmm...let's think about the circumstances here.
Their dropping out was a flight from torture after aiding fellow DA
members to defy Umbridge. They created a swamp in a corridor that
Umbridge couldn't remove, and therefore caused a problem for her and
a certain one of her collaborators.

How are they carrying the battle to new heights and territory? Look
at the description of their shop at the beginning of HBP! They are
doing something very improtant. In a world full of fear they are
doing their damndest to raise morale-right down to a giant poster
taunting Voldemort. Remember that much of Moldybutt's power is
through fear, and they are trying to alleviate some of the fear in
the populace-a dangerous and necessary bit of work. I'll admit they
seem to be working against Hogwarts defenses, but not in *any* sense
of collusion with Voldietwit or any other tyrant. Another, possibly
more important way they are helping the war effort is with the
defensive wear they are selling to the MoM. To head off the obvious
argument, yes, they are making a profit ("its such a moneyspinner")
but I challenge you to name me one company who made military
equipment in history who would turn down a profit.

Charles, who is still startled that someone could try and defend
Umbridge.