[HPforGrownups] Re: What Came First: Task or Cabinet? - The Plan v1 & v2/Bigotry or Not

[Jordan Abel]

No: HPFGUIDX 157747

> Betsy Hp:
> See, this is what's so odd to me.  The entire discussion is about
> whether Voldemort chose Draco or Draco chose Voldemort (who
> approached whom) and for some reason the conversation keeps getting
> dragged around to Voldemort's motivations.  Why?  It's confusing and
> it fogs the issue.

Random832:
Eh? I'm not saying that Voldemort didn't choose Draco - i'm saying
that it is 100% compatible with canon, and no less likely than your
version, that:

Draco found out about the cabinets.
Draco went to Voldemort to tell him about the cabinets, hoping to gain favor
Voldemort then, AFTER being told about the cabinets, gave Draco the
order kill DD _as a serious attempt to get DD killed_ (i.e. not as an
attempt to have Draco end up killed).

Nobody's saying that Draco came up with the whole plan _including_ him
being the one to carry it out and then proposed it to Voldemort.
Nothing in this theory negates the fact that the idea to have Draco
kill Dumbledore did NOT originate from Draco's mind.

Without the knowledge about the cabinets, it doesn't make sense that
it was a serious attempt on DD rather than a suicide mission, so
nobody considers that angle.

this WHOLE DEBATE is about voldemort's motivations - whether it was an
attempt to initiate Draco as a "serious" death eater, or to get him
killed to get back at Lucius. I don't see how you can claim otherwise.

You're setting up a straw man argument in claiming that we're saying
that Draco said "hey, i'll go to the dark lord and offer to kill
professor dumbledore". NOBODY has said that at all. That is NOT what
this debate is about, and I don't understand why you keep saying it
is.

Betsy Hp:
> Who cares (at this point) *why* Voldemort chose Draco, all we're
> trying to say is that *as per canon* Voldemort Draco.  And Narcissa
> doesn't need to understand a thing about Voldemort to correctly
> interpert Voldemort giving her son a task as Voldemort, well,
> choosing her son to do a certain task.

But there's no reason for her to consider the possibility that
Voldemort gave Draco the task _in response to_ information that Draco
gave him, because, well, she doesn't know he gave him information.

> Betsy Hp:
> Even if Narcissa thought Draco could complete his task easily she'd
> still come to the same exact conclusion as to whether Voldemort
> sought out Draco or Draco sought out Voldemort.

Random832:
Not necessarily, if that conclusion was based on speculation rather
than knowledge.

Betsy Hp:
>  And everybody in
> the room (and on the Tower, for that matter) seemed under the
> impression that it was Voldemort who sought out Draco.

Random832:
Because the other way doesn't make any _sense_ without the vanishing
cabinet. And where are we given any knowledge about what anyone who
knows about the vanishing cabinet thinks happened?

-- 
Random832