Fear and Gryffindor (Was: Is Lupin a Legilimens? Is that Suspicious?)

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 157772

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at ...> wrote:
>
>  
> > Renee:
> she'd most likely do it by letting Lupin slip in a way
> > characteristic for him - remaining passive where action is required,
> > or keeping his mouth shut when he ought to speak, in order to avoid
> > the condemnation of people who matter to him. His main flaw is his
> > fear to be disliked. (There are moments when I think he gave in to
> > Tonks because he feared the wrath of Molly and McGonagall.)
> > 
> 
> Pippin:
> Heh heh. I've thought that too, but I figured if *I* said it, people
> would think I was just being anti-Lupin. <g> Just because JKR hasn't
> stated her reservations about Lupin doesn't mean she hasn't got
> them. I'd certainly have reservations about someone who let himself
> be bullied into a relationship he didn't think would work. 

Renee:
If that was what she intended to show, yes. However, I'm not sure this
was her intention. There are at least as many moments when I think
Lupin merely needed the reassurance nobody was going to condemn him
for getting together with Tonks, old, poor and dangerous as he is. (I
remember writing here on this list that I suspect Lupin of making
depreciating remarks about himself in the hope someone will gainsay him.) 

And then there's the possibility JKR didn't realise the scene in the
hospital wing could come across like that because of the way she'd
written/talked about Lupin until then. (Generally speaking, I believe
my opinion of her characterisation in the HP series isn't as high as
yours is. )      

BTW, JKR *has* stated reservations about Lupin - she's the one who
said his flaw was that he liked too much to be liked, and that was
where he slipped up. She's stated reservations about other characters
too, but flawed =/= evil.  

Pippin: 
> You know, if it would endanger Lupin's mission to have  a long
> distance relationship with Harry, it should be equally dangerous to
> have one with a Ministry Auror like Tonks. But that doesn't get
> mentioned. It makes me think that maybe both sets of excuses are
> secondary.

Renee:
It doesn't get mentioned, because POV character Harry doesn't find out
about this relationship until shortly before the end of the book; JKR
went to considerable lengths to mislead him and the reader. And after
the hospital wing scene, Harry doesn't spend any thoughts on the two
of them - he merely notices they're holding hands at DD's funeral -
nor does he get to speak with either of them. 

But in fact the whole story, with the repeated, even exaggerated
stress on depressed-unable-to-morph-Tonks-with-the-mousy-brown-hair,
suggests that Lupin did try to distance himself from Tonks, and that
it was Tonks who didn't accept this. Maybe one of the reasons Lupin
finally gave in to her was, that his spying days are over now that
he's openly fought against the Death Eaters at Hogwarts. 


Pippin: 
> But is passivity really Lupin's defining characteristic? You know, I
can't
> find any Rowling quote with 'passivity' or 'passive' in the interviews
> and I don't recall those words ever appearing in canon.

It seems
> to me the operative word, in your post as in canon, is 'fear'. 
> JKR talks about fear, and its opposite, courage, a great deal.
> 
> It's clear that in her book, fear is a greater danger than death or
> evil. I don't think it really matters what someone is afraid of.  As
the 
> boggart lesson pointed out, whether your fear is realistic or not,
it can be 
> used to manipulate you. And Lupin doesn't handle fear very well. He
> never manages to turn his boggart into something funny. (Cockroach
> candy is funny only because cockroaches per se are not.)
> 
> It seems there are things Lupin doesn't want to do because he's afraid, 
> so he thinks up passive reasons not to do them. But the fear, IMO, 
> comes first. 
> 
 

Renee:
That's true, but in Lupin's case it does lead to passivity. That the
word isn't used in canon or interviews doesn't mean the implication
isn't there. Lupin fails to speak up for Snape in the Pensieve scene,
and he fails to tell Dumbledore that Sirius is an animagus. Sounds
pretty passive to me. JKR did say he cuts his friends too much slack.
You usually cut people too much slack by not interfering = remaining
passive. 

Wormtail (I) sides with the biggest bully out of fear. Lupin remains
passive out of fear. Same emotion, different personalities, different
results. 

Still, fear is definitely *not* the opposite of courage; that's
cowardice. Courage is about overcoming fear. If you really feel no
fear, you can't be courageous. We're never told Gryffindors have no
boggarts. Ron has fears. Hermione has fears. Even Harry has fears. Of
course Lupin has them, too. And no, I don't blame him for being unable
to turn the full moon into something funny. He can't escape it, he
can't fight it, and no other boggart we've seen in the series is as
completely unavoidable as his.    

Also, there are many kinds of fear. Lupin is obviously not afraid to
engage in battle. Wormtail obviously does not lack the nerve to cut
off his hand. Ron is afraid to reprimand his brothers, yet he tells
Sirius Black `you'll have to kill us too'. Dumbledore is afraid to
tell Harry about the prophecy, but he's not afraid to die. 

Molly is afraid to see her loved ones die - to such a degree that she
can't fight her boggart at all. Does that make her a coward - how can
you turn a dead child into something funny? Yet she's a Gryffindor. As
per JKR, the Sorting Hat is never wrong. It also placed Lupin in
Gryffindor, where dwell the brave of heart. 

(That it also put Peter there, makes me think we can expect a final
act of courage from him in Book 7).

Renée