Teaching Styles / Sorting Hat

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 157939

> Shaun:
> 
> We don't know that Snape hasn't tried with Neville. I agree that 
we don't see any sign that 
> he's tried, but that doesn't mean he hasn't. And quite a few of 
the things a teacher tries may 
> not be at all observable from the outside.
> 
> I'd honestly be rather surprised if Snape hasn't tried other 
things with Neville. He doesn't 
> seem to have found anything that works, but sometimes that is very 
hard to do.

Alla:

Well, IMO Snape did not try, because we don't see it on the page. It 
reminds me of the "cabinet" thread a bit now. Of course you can 
argue that he tried anything, but you ask me to prove double 
negative. It is not on the book page, so IMO Snape is being lasy 
with Neville, that is again if he wants to teach him at all.

I mean, you can  even argue that Snape praises Neville at the 
lessons we 
don't see, I guess. IMO JKR put everything about Snape teaching that 
she considers important on the page. It is not like his teaching 
methods are the final mystery ready to be revealed  same as his 
allegiances are IMO. I think all we need to know about him as a 
teacher is in the  book already. Although I suppose  it is not true 
if one holds a view that Harry cannot hear and see and does not 
accurately transcribe the words from Snape mouth. As you know - I do 
not hold that view, I don't buy that Snape's nastiness is "Harry 
filter", since I am having lots of trouble imagining how what Snape 
says to Harry and Neville can be explained away as nice. T


 
>> Shaun:
> <SNIP>
> We don't see him doing things because the books don't revolve 
around the education of 
> Neville Longbottom - and - frankly - the kids I teach *generally* 
don't see what I do for other 
> kids. There are exceptions, sometimes it is obvious - but most of 
the time it isn't.

Alla:

Yes, of course in RL that would be true, but I would find it 
extremely strange that "off the book page" Snape would be a 
different character than what we would have seen on the page. And 
again I am not talking about his other mysteries, but I think 
teaching methods are all there. Otherwise one can say that Snape off 
the book page in the Potions classes we don't see is being really 
fair to Trio and I don't think   there is a support for this 
argument, unless 
you can point me to canon hints that Snape as teacher is that 
different to Gryffindors off page. IMO of course.

I mean, yes, sure in book 7 one of Snape's revelations in his dying 
breath can be - I tried so hard to teach you ungrateful brats, I 
tried so many things with you Longbottom, but you just did not do 
it, so I decided to become your Boggart in hopes that this work.

But I mean, IMO the fact that Snape runs his mouth on Neville on the 
very first lesson speaks very strongly against Snape trying 
**anything** but scare tactics.


Shawn:
> I'm not saying Snape has necessarily done anything for Neville - I 
suspect he may have done 
> some minor things, but I don't think he's taken heroic steps - but 
I think it's an unsafe 
> assumption he's done nothing.


Alla:

Why? I see **zero** hints in canon that he indeed **tried** anything 
else but scaring Neville off. You may wish that he tried something, 
you may think that he tried something, because that is what decent 
teacher would have done, that is what you would have done, but I 
don't consider Snape to be a decent teacher and I think of Snape as 
a teacher after I read scenes in the book, I am not going to imagine 
scenes that IMO contradict everything we see of Snape teaching style 
in the book. Am I making sense?


Shawn: 
> I see a man who is still trying to get through to a student after 
three years. His methods may 
> not be working, but he is still expending effort on Neville. He 
hasn't written him off.

Alla:

Well, yes, if you consider what Snape does expending efforts on 
Neville, I consider Snape taking the easiest approach - scaring the 
kid in the oblivion, and since he took this approach from the very 
first lesson, I think that it is rather reasonable conclusion to 
make that Snape took this route right after Neville made his very 
first mistake.

Snape does not seem to give this kid a chance and IMO indeed wrote 
him off as failure right away.

Shawn:
<SNIP> 
> Snapes attempts with Neville don't seem to have worked. That 
doesn't mean there was no 
> point to making the attempt.
>

Alla:

I am glad we agree that what Snape does is not working with Neville, 
but except your assumption ( based on very valid RL experiences, but 
IMO is not necessarily applicable to what is happening in the book), 
I don't see a proof that he indeed **made** that attempt, and I mean 
the attempt to do something else at least, before scaring Neville 
off.

JMO,

Alla