Teaching Styles / Sorting Hat

[phoenixgod2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 157958


> Shaun:
> 
> No, I'm not asking you to prove a double negative - rather I'd say 
I'm asking is that people 
> consider the possibility that just because it's not on the page, 
doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

Actually, seems to me that in books, if its not on the page, and it 
isn't refrenced, then it doesn't happen. We'll never have any common 
frame of reference if we argue that stuff happens that isn't in the 
book.

'Cause I guess that means I can mentally add that Harry/Luna makeout 
scene that HBP desperately needs :)

> Personally, I would not expect to see major signs. We really don't 
see evidence of any of the 
> teachers at Hogwarts going out of their way to support individual 
students, which either 
> means they don't do it - in which case why are we picking on 
Snape? Or they do it and JKR 
> doesn't think it's a big enough deal to put it in the books.

Doesn't Professor Sprout spend extra time with neville? I admit I 
could be getting fanfiction mixed up with canon, but doesn't she 
give him additional attention?  There of course is also Professor 
Lupin teaching Harry the Patronus charm outside of the classroom. 
They have a special relationship, but don't you think Lupin would 
have taught that spell to anyone who asked and and that extreme a 
reaction to Dementors? Then what about Professor Trewlary (sp) and 
Parvati and Lavender? they both seemed to have a very good 
relationship with their divination teacher.
 
  > Yes, Snape calls him an idiot - he also tells him explicitly 
what he did wrong. If he just wants 
> to pick on the kid, he didn't need to do that. Telling a child 
exactly what they have done wrong 
> is good teaching.

But not when you do it in such a way as to prevent them from hearing 
the instruction.  All Neville would hear is the insult and Harry 
gets in back up towards Snape because the insults towards him. Good 
Teaching is also knowing what will get to each student. its reading 
them and knowing that, yes, this student can take make sarcasm, but 
this student can't so I won't use it on him.

I have a biting sense of humor myself and I have had to learn, 
sometimes the hard way, that I cannot always use it.

> And with the Trevor incident, again, Snape gives Neville 
*explicit* details as to what he had 
> done wrong and gives him a chance to fix it. That's *good* 
teaching - it really is. 

Sure it is, but not when you add threats to the mix. Threatening his 
toad is not good teaching.

> And to go further, he also allows the smartest child in the class 
to help Neville fix what he has 
> done - yes, he punishes Hermione for doing so - which means he 
*knows* she is doing it. But 
> he doesn't stop her. Again, that's good teaching and entirely 
appropriate.

I'm about to use my biting sense of humor so don't get mad :) But 
honestly that is so ass backwards I don't know where to begin. Yes, 
it is good teaching to allow good students to help students who 
aren't as good, but that when teachers do that, it is a conscious 
effort to do so. you put them in a group together. tie their grade 
together, there are a variety of techniques that go with pairing up 
students.  Snape doesn't use any of them. Hermione is forced to work 
on the sly to help neville, and she is punished at the end. 
Basically you seem to be saying that Snape expected Hermione to help 
him, that it was part of his plan, but at the same time she is 
punished for the role he clearly expected she would play. That's not 
good teaching. That's stupid. 
 
> Shaun:
 
> It's not a matter of it being *nice*. Snape is NOT nice, not by 
any measure of the word. But he 
> doesn't have to be to be a good teacher. As has been said, 
teaching is not a popularity 
> contest. I know some very nice teachers who are actually 
absolutely incompetent. Nice might 
> be enough if you're teaching infants - maybe - beyond that it's a 
minor component of 
> teaching. There's nothing wrong with being nice - but being nice 
isn't required.

I love the way you repeatedly use nice likes its some kind of 
poisonous word in this paragraph--as if the only two methods someone 
can use is to be nice or to be like Snape.

There are plenty of effective teachers who are neitherly overly nice 
nor overly cruel. the key to being a good teacher is being firm.  
You can be nice all you want as long as you students know when you 
tell them to do something they better damn well do it. It doesn't 
take insults or browbeating them to get students to that point 
either.  I've worked in schools were not only acting like Snape 
would be the last way would you teach a student, it would also be 
the first way you would end up getting shot.
 
> Even if JKR did put everything about Snape's teaching that she 
considers important on the 
> page, as I've indicated above, quite a bit of what we see can in 
my view, be seen as good 
> and valid pedagogy, if a person looks at it with a teachers eyes. 

Don't lump all of us teachers in together! I have plenty good 
teacher's eyes and as far as I'm concerned Snape is a boil on the 
behind of good education.

> Shaun:
 
> That statement to me is a statement that really does seem to come 
from a man who *loves* 
> his subject and who *desperately* wants to teach it - 
> 
> 'You are here to learn the subtle science and exact art of 
potionmaking'
> 
> 'I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper 
death'
> 
> This is a man who *wants* to teach his subject.

I would actually say that this is a man who *loves* his subject. 
that I would agree with, and thats also a very different animal than 
having a desire to teach it. I get the impression that Snape would 
rather be holed up in lab working on experiments than standing 
around trying to teach his subtle science to a bunch of runny nosed 
kids.
 
> 'He spoke in barely more than a whisper, but they caught every 
word - like Professor 
> McGonagall, Snape had the gift of keeping a class silent without 
effort.'

It does seem like he has fairly good classroom management. Probably 
due to the fact he likes threatening to poison pets :)
 
> Shaun:
> 
> Scaring the kid into oblivion from the very first lesson?
> 
> He called him an idiot boy - not nice, but for an 11 year old boy 
sent off to boarding school, I 
> really can't see that that would figure highly in his fears. And 
if he is so sensitive as to be hurt 
> so badly by that, then:
> 
> "'Which person,' she said, her voice shaking, 'which abysmally 
foolish person wrote down this 
> week's passwords and left them lying around?'"
> 
> must have been truly and utterly devastating to his psyche.
> 
> Yet, McGonnagall doesn't seem to attract anywhere near the vitriol 
that Snape does.

Of course there was also that scene in HBP where she talks up 
Neville when his grandmother badmouths his grades.

Also, in the scene you mention, she was asking who the abyssmally 
foolish person was. She didn't assume it was neville. it could have 
been Harry or Ron, or one of the younger years. It was not directed 
at Neville specifically the way Snape's insults have been.

McGonnagall doesn't recieve the vitrol Snape does because I think 
ultimately most people see her as strict but fair. She doesn't have 
the history of blatant favoritism and assery that Snape does.

phoenxigod2000, who wonders why Snape's teaching methods are still 
being argued about when he's an evil murderer ;)