DD at the Dursleys: Why do people dislike the scene?

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 158051





> Snow (me) previously:
> 
> Ok first off I didn't `enjoy' it nor would I look for a reason to 
do 
> so but I can accept why the scene happened and can appreciate why 
> Dumbledore had reasons to act in such a manner given his past-
limited 
> choices in allowing Harry to live with the Dursley's to begin 
with. 

Magpie:
Well, I don't mind talking about these side issues, but the fact 
still remains that I was asked why I didn't enjoy the scene and 
tried to think of an answer. Why didn't you enjoy the scene? It 
seems like you're doing what I described here, saying that you 
didn't have trouble with Dumbledore's actions because you think he 
had reasons to act this way. 

Snow: 

First I would like to say that it is quite difficult at times to 
communicate through the Internet (I think we all deserve a pat on the 
back for the attempt to try to understand each other given our 
different backgrounds let alone our lingual (miss) interpretations). 

Understanding someone's meaning in their post can be, at times, as 
difficult as the books themselves. I forget to appreciate, however, 
that everyone has formed their own theories and thoughts about all 
the characters that affect that persons ultimate conclusions, of any 
given scene, based on their own assumptions (including myself). 

In effect we are not on the same page even though we are discussing 
the same scene. 

Ok, that said, let's continue. 

My opinion of whether or not I liked the scene is far from important, 
the scene is the one that played out and the story thus far is the 
basis for this scene to happen at all. I can understand and therefore 
appreciate the reasoning behind such a scene given the characters 
previous actions that brought us to this point. 

Snow (me) previously:

> Dumbledore had no choice but to allow Harry to live with the very 
> people that would abuse him to a degree. To what degree this abuse 
> has affected him we can only surmise by his adult actions that he 
has 
> now portrayed. Has Harry been affected by the abuse from the 
> Dursley's and if he has, how is he displaying that affect? 
> 
> We are right back where you didn't want to be
at the beginning. 
> Dumbledore's actions in this scene are a direct result of Harry's 
> disgruntled upbringing. You can't separate Dumbledore's feelings 
> laying Harry (the wizarding world's only hope) on the doorstep of 
the 
> Dursley's from his suppressed (as I view it) limited actions when 
> last he spoke to the Dursley's in this very scene. 

Magpie:
Yes, I can separate those two things. Dumbledore made a decision to 
leave Harry with the Dursleys knowing it could be hard on him. He 
doesn't like the fact that the Dursleys mistreated Harry. The two 
things are easily separated, even as I understand that Dumbledore's 
motivated by his anger over their mistreatment of Harry. Then there 
is the third aspect, which is how Dumbledore chooses to act in the 
scene. I didn't enjoy watching his actions in the scene, so I 
didn't enjoy the scene, even while knowing he left Harry at the 
Dursleys for the blood protection and that he doesn't like the 
Dursleys because they mistreated Harry.

Snow:
You do have every right to separate the scenes but in doing so the 
second scene, the topic we are speaking about, loses its rational and 
can be viewed questionably. 

Dumbledore explained to the Dursley's that he left Harry on their 
doorstep with the "hope that you would care for him as though he were 
your own". HBP pg. 55 

Dumbledore may have anticipated the end product, of which he is very 
open about when he chastises their behavior of Harry over the years, 
but he certainly did have hope that they would act human.
 
The Dursley's made there less than poor choice to be neglectful, at 
best, to Harry and Dumbledore had already made his decision so there 
was no turning back. 

This house was where his mother's sacrifice could protect Harry 
beyond anything that Dumbledore could have ever created as a 
protection
then Dumbledore added his own protections so that even 
Voldemort himself admitted he could not touch the boy there. The deal 
was sealed when Petunia took him in
there's no turning back. 
 
Dumbledore was stuck with his decision and Harry's mistreatment. How 
can you possibly deny Dumbledore a few subtle, reminders on this 
visit, as to their continued rude behavior? 

These people or muggles don't even have the understanding that they 
have done anything wrong in their eyes. Dumbledore was attempting to 
show them that their abusive behavior has not ceased to exist and 
they still do not recognize to what extent it remains to be so when 
he refers to Dudders. 

(Dumbledore, 
gotta love him, always the teacher
even in his last on 
the Tower when he attempts to teach the unworthy deatheaters with his 
responses)

Snow (me) previously: 
> 
> Now you are applying your own emotions to the scene. You don't 
like 
> being treated that way therefore you don't like the Dursley's 
being 
> treated the way Dumbledore treated them. I agree I don't like 
anyone 
> to be treated in a disrespectful way but how did the Dursley's 
treat 
> Harry and more so how did the Dursley's treat Dumbledore in this 
> scene; they never changed, they are still disrespectful and 
subtlety 
> abusive? 

Magpie:
Of course I'm applying my own emotions to the scene. I was ASKED 
about my emotions to the scene, and this is what they are. The fact 
that the Dursleys did worse to Harry doesn't change my irritation 
reading the scene. My emotional reaction to the scene counts as 
much as someone else's does. It's not like I'm hiding it.

Snow:

As I have said, you are certainly entitled to apply your own emotions 
to any scene in any of the books. 

My point was that in doing so you may misinterpret the meaning of the 
given scene that was intended by the author because of your own 
emotions. 

I feel that, everyone, whether they realize it or not bases their 
opinions from their own point of view based on their emotions and 
mental awareness of their past experiences. People sometimes can't 
help but to become connected with a particular scene because it may 
trigger a part of their own experience. 

This is exactly where I attempt to become objective to the point of 
excluding my own emotions so I don't cloud my vision of the actual 
events that are going on.

I don't know how to say this any better but I assure you that my 
response was not meant as an insult to you personally and you Do have 
every right to view a scene in whatever manner you wish. 


Snow (me) previously: 
> I try to live my life by the turn-the-other-cheek analogy but 
there 
> are times when the cheek just gets to red to turn it again; after 
all 
> we are only human even if you are blessed with powers :) like 
> Dumbledore. 

Magpie:
So why didn't you enjoy the scene, since you said you didn't? I 
don't feel like I owe it to Dumbledore or Harry to like the scene 
just because there's earlier scenes of the Dursleys abusing Harry, 
even some that might not annoy me as much. It's not like I'm 
talking about real people and saying what Dumbledore did was worse 
than locking a kid in a cupboard and treating him like dirt for 
years. I'm reading a children's book and reacting to the author's 
choices in the scene. The Dursley/Harry scenes have one tone and 
work one way, this one works another way.

Snow:
I believe I have already answered this but then again there's that 
whole Internet in-clarity I spoke of at the beginning of this post. I 
will answer again, since you asked twice what I didn't like
I will 
reluctantly elaborate but it has no bearing on the story. 

I am not Holier-than-though and would have to protect a child to the 
nth degree, so given the logistics that Dumbledore could not totally 
prevent Harry's abuse (as I see it) once his initial decision had 
been invoked, I would have been more than severe (in this scene) when 
I finally had my final conversation with the very persons who I 
entrusted to care for Harry. 

In short, Dumbledore didn't do enough convincing in this last scene 
to make me proud But (discounting my person emotions) I can also 
appreciate that Dumbledore is a Holier-than-though-type-of-person and 
could not stoop to the level I would have gone less he become as 
abusive as the Dursley's themselves. (you can't teach a child not to 
hit by hitting them)
 
That's not to say that this Holier type person was not tempted to do 
so
which I think took great control on his part to not do what he 
really would have liked to.

For all intense purposes I do agree with the scene because of this 
very fact as I have come to realize it therefore I don't see it as 
alarming, questioning or disappointing in the least. 

Snow (me) previously: 
> 
> I see it as actually repressed anger, which for the Dursley's sake 
> Dumbledore is a very fair and compassionate man because I would 
have 
> been way more insensitive than Dumbledore was in this scene if it 
> would have been my child or charge. 

Magpie:
And ironically, a scene of you being more insensitive might have 
annoyed me less-who knows? Especially if it was your child. 
Obviously Dumbledore wouldn't abuse anyone the way the Dursleys 
abused Harry. The scene still irritates me.

Snow:

If (big if) this scene irritated me at all that would be why but then 
it's not my story and I do accept and appreciate what I previously 
have said that Dumbledore would be stooping to the Dursley's 
stupidity and ignorance if he had done any more than what he did. 

Cheers
Snow