Petunia and Lily (was why do people dislike this scene)

dumbledore11214 dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com
Sat Sep 9 17:45:10 UTC 2006


No: HPFGUIDX 158091

> Ceridwen:
> I purposely tried to stay away from any other issues, like the 
abuse 
> issue and the DD's visit issue, but didn't do a very good job of 
> saying so!  Blame math class.  8(

Alla:

I told you - put X to one side and numbers to another and here we 
go ;), although as you remember as soon as you add **y** to X, I am 
stumbling too. Great mathematicians, us.


Ceridwen: 
> Though, I would suggest that if Petunia and Vernon were supported 
by 
> the WW, perhaps the abuse would not have happened.  I'm only 
saying 
> perhaps, because we can't know.  But knowing that they had some 
> recourse when Harry displayed accidental magic might have relieved 
> stress, which also contributes to abusive situations, if I recall 
> correctly.  And knowing that someone would be around to check and 
> have 'Tea with Petunia' (who said that?  love it, sounds like an 
> afternoon gossip program on TV!) would curtail some more overt 
> abuses, too, in my opinion.

Alla:

Mmmm, if somebody was checking on Harry, I **bet** abuse would not 
have happened, I mean also just speculating. But you are saying that 
Dursleys would not have give in their worse impulses, if WW would 
have supporting it? Maybe, although I have problems believing it.

But the general question of absense of support to the Muggle parents 
and guardians of muggleborn magical kids, which you were 
addressing...

Yes, that would have been nice, but but isn't it the problem of 
Statute of secrecy again? Doesn't WW try to keep the contacts to the 
minimum?

Isn't JKR trying to keep two words separate as much as possible? I 
mean, they cannot be completely separate because of Muggleborn kids, 
but I am not sure if they would go for network of support, although 
certainly at least individual support would have been nice.

**Not sure** how much it would make Dursleys to treat Harry better 
of course, but one never knows.

Ceridwen:
<SNIP>
But, since you mentioned it ;), Harry 
> could read anger for fear if someone is yelling at him (not 
talking 
> about any physical abuse here, just yelling).

Alla:

You know, I often cannot even write anymore that I strongly disagree 
with you, since your posts are so in the middle often enough and any 
strong reply to them seems to me to be going overboard ( we all know 
how often in the heated discussion extreme argument provokes extreme 
reply), but regardless of whether it is anger or fear, does it 
matter?

Does the situation would become less abusive if what drives Dursleys 
is fear?

Petunia driven by fear would still be the same Petunia who tried to 
hit Harry with the pan, she still be the same Petunia who did not 
protest when Harry was locked in the room with bars and starved.

I know that you are specifically adressing yelling, but IMO after 
yelling always comes something else and even when it is just 
yelling, especially when Harry is little, he is still hurt by it, no?

Ceridwen:
> Plenty of parents yell at their kids when something horrifying has 
> happened.  For instance, a child running into the street.  The kid 
> thinks the parent is very angry, shouting, carrying on, but 
another 
> adult seeing what was happening would see fear for what could have 
> happened.  Not that we see Petunia too concerned for Harry's 
safety, 
> but she might react in fear over a bout of accidental magic, which 
> Harry would perceive as anger.

Alla:

Yes, when child does something dangerous, one yells if necessary to 
stop it, but would still show child that he is loved, no?

> Ceridwen:
<SNIP>
> I still think there should be some pre-Hogwarts 
> support for *all* Muggle parents and guardians of magical 
children, 
> not just the Dursleys.  Fear and anger, and in some instances, 
even 
> misplaced religious fervor, could lead to tragic circumstances for 
> any magical child, not just Harry.

Alla:

See above, I don't disagree at all.


> Ceridwen:
> Oh, definitely Petunia is jealous.  Her speech about her 'freak' 
> sister in PS/SS sounded bitter and sad and jealous.  , SNIP> But, 
I think she was hurt, too, that her parents were so proud of 
> Lily.  It sounded to me that she felt left out and even unloved on 
> some level.  Lily's special, Petunia is just Petunia.


Alla:

You know, I think this can actually be perfect groundwork to put 
some humanness in Petunia - if that will come to the surface that 
she felt unloved, that she indeed loved Lily, but was jealous, I may 
feel some sympathy towards her, but nothing in my mind will erase 
the horrible things she did to innocent kid, absolutely nothing.

Yes, she grudgingly took him in indeed, but in my mind she did 
nothing else than the aunt has to do for her oprhan nephew.

Somebody upthread said that the list of people for whom she would 
endanger her kids is very short. I am not sure how much danger 
Dudley is in because of Harry, although I guess Dementor visit 
should count as such, but I know one thing - my brother's little 
daughter is certainly on the list of people for whom I would do 
**anything** and protect her ( hopefully that would never ever be 
needed) with anything I can.

JMO,

Alla







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