Petunia and Lily (was why do people dislike this scene)

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 158098

Alla:
> But the general question of absense of support to the Muggle parents
and guardians of muggleborn magical kids, which you were
addressing...

Yes, that would have been nice, but but isn't it the problem of
Statute of secrecy again? Doesn't WW try to keep the contacts to the
minimum?

Ceridwen:
It can't help the Statute of Secrecy when a magical child is loose in 
the Muggle world turning hair green or hanging rabbits.  People will 
notice.  Witches and wizards are not supposed to do magic around/in 
front of Muggles, yet here these children are, unchecked and 
untrained, leaping to schoolhouse roofs.  This seems like a huge hole 
in the Statutes of Secrecy which needs to be dealt with, I think.

A WW counsellor wouldn't go to all the Muggles associated with the 
child, but only to the parents or guardians.  They could give support 
to handle magical occurrences, and help with what to say about 
instances around other Muggles.

Alla:
> Petunia driven by fear would still be the same Petunia who tried to
hit Harry with the pan, she still be the same Petunia who did not
protest when Harry was locked in the room with bars and starved.

Ceridwen:
But, would she?  If this is all that is driving her, then yes, 
perhaps she would be.  But what if it is fear, plus secrecy, plus 
stress, plus?  This is something we can't know (JKR could, but again, 
something that probably will not be addressed).

Alla:
> I know that you are specifically adressing yelling, but IMO after
yelling always comes something else and even when it is just
yelling, especially when Harry is little, he is still hurt by it, no?

Ceridwen:
Something else doesn't always follow yelling.  People yell in extreme 
situations even when they don't usually yell.  If this is the extreme 
reaction, then the extreme has already been done.

It doesn't hurt - no, it doesn't *harm* Harry - to be yelled at on 
occasion.  The child I mentioned, who ran out into the street, is 
probably frightened by the parent's yelling, its heart racing, blood 
pounding through its veins, shaking, maybe even pale.  But that child 
will remember its own fear and associate it with the act of rushing 
into a street.  Fear is a survival response.  It helps keep us safe.

Alla:
> Yes, when child does something dangerous, one yells if necessary to
stop it, but would still show child that he is loved, no?

Ceridwen:
In most of my experiences, the parent yells during and after.  The 
parent is terrified, shaken up, with the same physical reactions I 
mentioned for the child above.  It is a terrifying thing to see your 
child running out into a street.  It affects you like almost falling 
off a cliff.  And the parent yells afterwards, asking the child what 
on earth it was thinking, hasn't the parent told the child time and 
time again not to run into the street, and so on.  "I was so scared!  
You could have been killed!  That grease spot there could have been 
you!"  The parent is acting out on his or her own terror - not just 
fear but honest terror.  It's primal, and logic and reason have 
nothing to do with it.

And sure, the parent will eventually hug the child, once the shaking 
stops, or even before.  And cry.  And all those things he or she 
said: "I was scared!  I almost lost you!" are also expressions of 
love, though a child hearing them shouted might not register them as 
such right away.

Alla:
> You know, I think this can actually be perfect groundwork to put
some humanness in Petunia - if that will come to the surface that
she felt unloved, that she indeed loved Lily, but was jealous, I may
feel some sympathy towards her, but nothing in my mind will erase
the horrible things she did to innocent kid, absolutely nothing.

Ceridwen:
I think most siblings want to like and be liked by their brothers and 
sisters.  Things happen to drive a wedge between them, and that's not 
only sad, but it has long-range repercussions for these children's 
lives.  In this case, as someone else mentioned, Lily is described as 
a beautiful girl while Petunia is described as looking like a horse.  
Lily has a special talent that makes her parents proud, and from what 
Petunia said in the shack on the rocks, they made no secret of how 
proud they were to have a witch in the family.  Nothing about 
Petunia, she's nothing special.

Interesting thought: could Lily have defended Petunia to her parents 
('She's special too!') and gotten Petunia's undying contempt?  If 
someone always rushes to the rescue, it can begin to rub the wrong 
way, especially when the person being defended feels inadequate (am I 
sorry enough to need defending?) or when the words of defense have a 
hollow ring (Lily's a witch; *how* is Petunia special compared to 
that?).  This defense can come across as condescending to the person 
being defended.

Alla:
*(snip)*
> I am not sure how much danger Dudley is in because of Harry, 
although I guess Dementor visit should count as such...

Ceridwen:
Harry's parents, who were able to use magic, were killed because LV 
wanted to kill Harry.  Umbridge's Dementor allies were very little 
compared to a powerful wizard bent on killing, invading the house.  
Dudley and Harry are near the same age, too, and we saw that Hagrid 
at first mistook Dudley for Harry.  The house at GH was destroyed - 
what would happen to a Muggle child if his house came crashing down 
around his ears?  A powerful wizard is after Harry.  Harry lives with 
the Dursleys, a Muggle family who can't even get rid of hospitable 
glasses of mead or an enlarged tongue or a pig's tail.

There is a blood protection, but it is due to run out within two 
months of the close of HBP.  Many of us are expecting some sort of 
attack the minute such an attack can be mounted, and there is Harry 
at the Dursleys' house.  Petunia was shaken when she realized this.  
I think she does know enough about the WW and the dangers Lily and 
James faced, to be rightfully afraid.  But again, we don't know 
exactly what Petunia knows.

Ceridwen.