Fidelius Charm - Godric's Hollow Destroyed

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 158326

Carol:
> But where is the evidence that they knew or that James, Peter, and 
Sirius hatched some elaborate scheme to inform them of the Potters' 
whereabouts? It seems to me that the Potters would have wanted as few 
people as possible to know--possibly Dumbledore but certainly not 
Snape. AFAWK, not even Lupin knew the Secret. 

Ceridwen:
Evidence?  Probably scattered all through the books, we just don't 
see it because we don't know what to look for yet.

And what we're looking for is evidence of the significance of DD 
having James's Invisibility Cloak at the time of his death.  Hence, 
speculation.  We could have speculated that Dumbledore wanted it to 
cloak his body so he could be a Disembodied Floating Head at a fancy-
dress ball.  Dumbledore can make himself wholly invisible without a 
cloak, but can he do *that*?  ;)

I'm not so much into elaborate schemes to give the secret to the Good 
Guys.  I'm with whoever it was (Ken?) who suggested that the Fidelius 
is broken once the faith is broken - once the SK tells an enemy the 
secret (and that enemy acts on it).  If there was anything elaborate 
going on, it would have been on LV's side, to conceal the identity of 
his informant from the other DEs.  If Snape was there under the IC, 
then he saw a note from the SK at DE HQ, either overtly as someone 
allowed to be in on the secret (doubtful), or secretly as he spied on 
some things he was not invited to be in on.

You objected much earlier (I think it was you!) that LV would have 
sensed Snape under a cloak.  But, I suggest that this was where 
Occlumency came in handy.  *IF* it blocks the thoughts, then it can 
be used to block all evidence of thought, IMO.  We may see Occlumency 
differently.  LV not suspecting that someone would be spying, plus 
Snape occluding his thoughts, could allow this scenario.

Carol:
> And where's the evidence that anyone besides Peter (who must have 
retrieved and hidden Voldemort's wand) was at Godric's Hollow? 
Neither James nor Lily mentions Snape in Harry's Dementor-induced 
memories. James tells Lily that "he" (meaning Voldemort) is here. No 
one else is mentioned. Peter could have hidden as a rat. But why on 
earth would DDM!Snape be there? He says that he was at Hogwarts. 
Granted, he could be lying to Bella, but surely if he were there, 
she'd already know?

Ceridwen:
Why would Bellatrix know if Snape was at GH, hidden in an IC, if he 
was there on DD's orders and not for LV's?  I agree that Peter was 
there in one form or another, probably rat.  Anyone else who was 
there under an IC would not have been noticed by the Potters, or by 
LV or Wormtail.  Why would DDM!Snape be there?  Following 
Dumbledore's orders; following LV (not seeing PP since he would be a 
rat); keeping a lookout on the property and Potters for DD - 
Apparating immediately when LV arrived and was seen to be able to see 
the house - this would be a scenario where a note was sent from the 
SK to DD instead of the SK telling him in person.  He would share the 
note with whoever he wished, then destroy it.  Does not necessitate 
Polyjuiced!Peter, which does seem too elaborate IMO.  But then, why 
so much emphasis on Polyjuice?

Carol:
> And as I said before, Dumbledore's words indicate that *James* gave 
him the Invisibility Cloak *before* Godric's Hollow, and it's most 
unlikely that Snape would show up at GH wearing James's Invisibility 
Cloak. (Imagine James's reaction to that!) If Dumbledore can become 
invisible without a cloak and James trusts him enough to have Peter 
(disguised as Sirius) tell him the Secret, wouldn't he have gone 
there himself rather than sending Snape, whom James *wouldn't* trust?

Ceridwen:
First, a note could be sent, not a Polyjuiced!Peter.  Second, this is 
exactly what we're trying to figure out.  Why would DD, who can 
become invisible, need the cloak, in either his or James's 
estimation?  The only reason I can think of personally would be to 
use it, as part of the arsenal of ICs people have already mentioned, 
for spies and lookouts.  There may be more than one spy, so more than 
one cloak is needed; there may be more than one lookout, so more than 
one cloak is needed.

We do know that DD uses lookouts.  He used Mundungus Fletcher to 
watch out for Harry (MD did a poor job of it, too) for an example.  
Someone, by virtue of the SK's note (and DD could have asked for a 
note from the SK so he could show the lookout), would be watching the 
Potters, and someone could be watching the Longbottoms, too.  Moody's 
extra cloak, James's cloak, all accounted for right there.

Carol:
> Also, if Dumbledore wasn't awakened by the sudden realization that 
he knew the hiding place and therefore the Potters were dead (and/or 
snape woke him to show him his fading Dark Mark), how did he know 
that anything was wrong?

Ceridwen:
Snipping heavily here.  A lookout informing him would wake him just 
as well; and, how does DD know even half the stuff he does?  Snape's 
mark fading would be one clue, though, I agree with that.  If the 
lookout (whoever it was) Apparated back before the confrontation 
between James and LV, then the outcome would not have been known *at 
that time*.  The lookout would be sent back, and if that lookout 
wasn't Snape, his Mark fading would have been one indication while 
they waited to hear back from the lookout.

Oh, on lookouts, there would be more than one.  Unless we're talking 
about a House Elf here, and even then, they need their sleep.  
Another reason to reasonably ask for a note from the SK - to show 
anyone in the Order who would act as one lookout in a rotation.

Ceridwen, who is not wholly convinced of anything except that JKR 
thinks that DD having James's cloak is something we should ask, and 
by extension, think about.