More thoughts on the Cloak

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 158523

Carol earlier:
> If Barty Jr. was innocent, how do you explain his fanatical loyalty to
> Voldemort and his frequent, eager use of Unforgiveable Curses, not
> only on spiders, but on his own students (Imperius curse), on Krum
> (Imperius curse) and on his own father (Avada Kedavra)?
> 
> Abergoat:
> I didn't claim Barty Jr. wasn't a loyal Death Eater, 
> although I'm not sure he was at the age of 19 (Regulus 
> Black seems to have joined without realizing what he 
> was in for..). Thirteen(?) years under Imperius might 
> twist someone's personality quite throughly. And 
> killing his father? No problem, his father's failure 
> to believe him destroyed his life. As for Krum? Why 
> didn't Barty Jr just kill Cedric, Fleur and Krum to
> ensure Harry got to the cup first? And if they got 
> there first, who cares? Voldemort would just kill them. 
> Everything points to Barty Jr not wanting to kill more 
> people than necessary. Not exactly a Bella duplicate.
> 
> JKR lays out GoF to suggest that Barty Jr got the 
> strength to throw off Imperius by seeing 'free' Death 
> Eaters parade around at the World Cup. Barty's life has 
> been a tragedy...and I bet he had done a lot less than 
> those people. I found it telling that what Barty Jr wanted
> from Harry was information on how the Death Eaters were 
> treated by Voldemort - I got the impression he wanted them
> punished...the punishment that he had received at the 
> hands of his father that these people had not.

Carol responds:
Barty Jr. was under the cloak and under the Imperius Curse for twelve
years. He could not have acquired the power and the will to cast
Unforgiveable Curses during that time, and the evident enjoyment he
receives from Crucioing the spider under Neville's nose suggests to me
that he knew exactly what he was doing--he would torture the
Longbottom boy, whose parents he had tortured earlier, by making him
watch the Crucio'd spider, which would lead to his needing a cup of
tea in Crouch!Moody's office later, so he could slip him the
waterplants book as an act of "kindness." I forgot to mention that he
also enjoyed torturing Draco, transforming him into a ferret and
bouncing him on the floor.

You've ignored my point about the chains on the chair binding Barty
Jr. ("the chained boy") as they bound Karkaroff but did not bind Ludo
Bagman (or Harry in OoP). And Bellatrix, who would never credit
someone who wasn't a loyal DE with helping her to find Voldemort and
torture the Longbottoms, says "We alone were faithful. The Dark Lord
will reward us above all others" (quoted from memory). "We" seems to
include not only the Lestrange brothers but Barty Jr. If Barty weren't
one of the people who accompanied her and helped her torture the
Longbottoms, surely she would have excluded him from her claim to "glory."

Carol, who agrees that Barty Jr.'s fate is tragic but thinks he must
have been taught the Unforgiveables, probably by Bella, as a young DE