[HPforGrownups] Re: Protection-Abuse / Patron-Client (was:re:Blood protection/ Dumbledore and Harry)

[Sherry Gomes]

No: HPFGUIDX 158561

> Ceridwen:
> Bowls of soup are certainly not enough for a growing teenaged boy, but 
> it isn't starving him.  It's giving him the minimum, or near
the 
> minimum, to survive.  He is expending less energy being locked in
his 
> room.  Or, maybe not.  Dudley doesn't get a lot of exercise even 
> though he's not locked in his room.  Kids don't play outside any more.  
> Pity.

Alla:

I am sorry, but I really don't see much difference. You are arguing that
Dursleys are giving him enough in order not to make him die of starvation?
Maybe they do, but Harry still feels hungry and it is still starving him
maybe not to death, but still starving IMO.


Sherry now:

Just because bowls of soup are passed through a flap in the door everyday,
doesn't make it enough to feed a growing child.  The descriptions of his
time before the Weasleys rescue him speak volumes to me of someone who is
going with far too little food for health.  Over a period of weeks and
months, this could cause serious physical complications.  No wonder the poor
kid is small for his age!  Deliberately not feeding a child enough to meet
his body's needs, when you are well able to do so is definitely a form of
serious abuse in my opinion.  


Ceridwen: 
> What is bothering me about this entire line of thought is the 
> automatic assumption that staying out of reach of 
Vernon's "grasp/" 
> equals out of reach of Vernon's "/fist".  The debate over abuse v. 
> discipline won't be solved by a series of children's books and the 
> discussion over them, but children who are properly spanked (flat 
of 
> hand across gluteus maximus) will dance out of the way as well, 
and 
> children who are marched to a corner for "time out" will have 
learned 
> to avoid that same grasping hand.  There is no overt mention of 
> abuse, and to me, no covert mention, either. 
<SNIP>

Alla:

The automatic assumption I indeed make that Vernon was hitting ( not 
properly, no) Harry is because of how I see Dursleys through the 
entire books. If this was indeed the **one** isolated remark and we 
would have seen Dursleys act as loving parents do through the entire 
books, maybe indeed couple other reasons for Harry stay out of 
Vernon reach would come to mind. Otherwise in line of Vernon and 
Petunia not stopping Harry hunting, in line of Petunia trying to hit 
Harry with frying pan, I don't see a possibility that Harry would 
want to stay out of Vernon reach because Vernon would want punish 
Harry for proper reasons.



Sherry now:

Also, in HBP, Harry is nearly 16.  He's far too old to be worrying about a
little swat on the butt or being forced to go stand in the corner.  This
thought happens when he is well beyond the age for such punishments, and to
me, again it makes me believe Harry had a much worse reason for wanting to
stay out of Vernon's reach.  

Yes, we know JKR had to give Harry this miserable background in order to
make the transition between the early years of his life and his first intro
to the wizarding world, but except in the first book, when the Dursleys were
almost comical, I don't think we're supposed to think Harry did not suffer
abuse at least at the hands of Vernon Dursley.  There's got to be some
reason why he's JKR's least favorite character.  Now when I read SS/PS  I
don't find the Dursley stuff very humorous anymore, because the progress of
the story, the darkening of the series makes me look at even that somewhat
light-hearted book differently.

Sherry