Protection-Abuse / Patron-Client (was:re:Blood protection/ Dumbledore and Ha

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 158574


> Ceridwen: 
> > What is bothering me about this entire line of thought is the 
> > automatic assumption that staying out of reach of 
> Vernon's "grasp/" 
> > equals out of reach of Vernon's "/fist".  The debate over abuse v. 
> > discipline won't be solved by a series of children's books and the 
> > discussion over them, but children who are properly spanked (flat 
> of 
> > hand across gluteus maximus) will dance out of the way as well, 
> and 
> > children who are marched to a corner for "time out" will have 
> learned 
> > to avoid that same grasping hand.  There is no overt mention of 
> > abuse, and to me, no covert mention, either. 
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> The automatic assumption I indeed make that Vernon was hitting ( not 
> properly, no) Harry is because of how I see Dursleys through the 
> entire books. If this was indeed the **one** isolated remark and we 
> would have seen Dursleys act as loving parents do through the entire 
> books, maybe indeed couple other reasons for Harry stay out of 
> Vernon reach would come to mind. Otherwise in line of Vernon and 
> Petunia not stopping Harry hunting, in line of Petunia trying to hit 
> Harry with frying pan, I don't see a possibility that Harry would 
> want to stay out of Vernon reach because Vernon would want punish 
> Harry for proper reasons.

wynnleaf,
In addition to the staying out of Vernon's reach, we have Harry in
OOTP, Career Advice, 

"You'd need more than a good sense of fun to liaise with my uncle,"
said Harry darkly, "Good sense of when to duck, more like..."

"When to duck" implies hitting, not spanking or grabbing by the collar.

As I said in my other post about this, Vernon also choked him, which
makes it almost certain that Vernon's physical abuse must have been
regular enough for him to become willing to choke Harry for something
trivial, even out of the window in the possible view of neighbors.
 
> 
> Sherry now:
> 
> Also, in HBP, Harry is nearly 16.  He's far too old to be worrying
about a
> little swat on the butt or being forced to go stand in the corner.  This
> thought happens when he is well beyond the age for such punishments,
and to
> me, again it makes me believe Harry had a much worse reason for
wanting to
> stay out of Vernon's reach.  

wynnleaf,
Yet in OOTP he sees there's a need to "duck" around Vernon, and Vernon
has choked him.  By the way, the choking seemed to have brought out
some protective magic in Harry.

Sherry
> Yes, we know JKR had to give Harry this miserable background in order to
> make the transition between the early years of his life and his
first intro
> to the wizarding world, but except in the first book, when the
Dursleys were
> almost comical, I don't think we're supposed to think Harry did not
suffer
> abuse at least at the hands of Vernon Dursley.  There's got to be some
> reason why he's JKR's least favorite character.  Now when I read
SS/PS  I
> don't find the Dursley stuff very humorous anymore, because the
progress of
> the story, the darkening of the series makes me look at even that
somewhat
> light-hearted book differently.

wynnleaf
I agree with this.  When I read the first two books, I thought of
things in a sort of comic way, and didn't look at the Dursley's
actions the same way I would if it were what I might consider a
true-to-life story.  But since the later books came out, I view the
Dursleys quite differently.  And I think that JKR wanted us to see
them differently, especially when I felt she made the physical abuse
aspect clear in OOTP.  I'm often surprised that I don't see people
mention the choking episode very often.  Do readers tend to pass over
that as an example of abuse, simply because Harry is a little older? 
To me, it speaks of a long history of abuse.

wynnleaf