Sirius, Sirus, and more Sirius (was: Petunia/Headmaster/LVatHogwarts/Mo...)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 158604

> a_svirn:
> Where did this "only" come from?  He wasn't trying to save Harry 
> from living in the world dominated by Voldemort period. And since 
> this world wasn't dominated by some magical equivalent of Hitler, 
> why should Harry have sought a political asylum in the muggle world? 

Pippin:
Er, the Order exists to keep Voldemort from taking over. 
Dumbledore is trying to save everyone, Harry included, from 
that. If he had a right and a duty to interfere, it was for that.

 What's analogous is that Sirius agreed to send Harry
away from a loving home in what was not yet obviously
mortal danger to a future where he might face cruelty 
and neglect but at least would be protected from the danger
Dumbledore foresaw.  I was pointing out that far from being a 
fairytale contrived dilemma that no one would face in real 
life, there were and are many parents who have had to make 
such choices.



> a_svirn:
> Well, I am not quite sure where in canon all those suicidal death 
> eaters are mentioned, 

Pippin:
In GoF, where we learn that Rosier, for one, forced Moody
to kill him. There were two other empty places in the circle
where DE's had died in the Dark Lord's service. 

a_svirn
> that requires different kind of solution. Take your own simile – in 
> the real world refugees fleeing from genocide and some VIPs targeted 
> by criminals usually take different routs. For the former – 
> emigration and political asylum on the lousiest possible terms, for 
> the latter bodyguards, high-tech security, witness protection 
> programs and such. Dumbledore could have taken this route too. 

Pippin:
There's canon that these methods did not work for those victims
whom Voldemort had decided to kill personally. Otherwise
the Potters would still be alive.

The means of protection you suggest work because they make 
the target too expensive and dangerous, but they would not work 
against Voldemort, whose power is free and who no longer
needs to fear that he will lose his life.

Fake death would not work. Voldemort *knew* Harry
had survived, as did whoever took his wand away.  
Voldemort would suspect a trick.


> > Pippin:
> > Dumbledore  could also reasonably expect that 
> > Voldemort himself  was still capable of 
> > finding ways to kill Harry and still motivated to do so. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> The only thing Voldemort was capable at the time is sustaining his 
> vapoury essence.

Pippin:
He was capable of seducing Quirrell. As Dumbledore
was not looking over JKR's shoulder as she wrote, he had no
way of knowing that a Quirrell would not show up for
ten years. He knew that Voldemort's memory and
will would survive within the maimed soul fragment that
was his spectral self.  He knew that Voldemort would seek to 
return  to power and would never give up
his obsession with destroying Harry. As you say, there was
no timetable.
 
> > Pippin:
> > But Dumbledore couldn't have explained  that without explaining 
> > about horcruxes or Voldemort's interpretation of the prophecy.  
> > He did not want Voldemort to realize how much he knew, so he 
> > couldn't alert anyone  to the real extent of the danger. 
> > 
> > Certainly Dumbledore was in no position to explain all this to 
> > anyone in the Order when Dumbledore did not yet know which 
> > Order member was the spy. Yet they could hardly have been 
> > expected to defend Harry adequately without knowing it. 
> > Only Petunia could do that.
> 
> a_svirn:
> I got the impression that no one in the Order ever demanded 
> explanations from Dumbledore. He gave orders, others obeyed. 

Pippin:
How are they supposed to guard Harry if they don't know
what they're guarding against? It didn't work very well in OOP,
did it.

It's not merely a question of demanding explanations. If Harry is
kept under heavy guard while everyone else in the WW relaxes
and goes about their business, that alone will be proof of
what Dumbledore knows.

But the strength of the power that protects Harry at Privet Drive 
can be concealed until Voldemort attempts to penetrate it since 
he does not like thinking about love magic and what it can do.

> > Pippin:
> > Anyway, things wouldn't have looked very good for Sirius even
> > before  the attack on the Muggles. James and Lily had trusted 
> > him above all others, Dumbledore believed he had been their
> > secret-keeper, and James and Lily were *dead*. Even if Dumbledore 
> > knew that Sirius had been chosen as Harry's guardian, it would've 
> > been reckless to hand Harry over to him under  the circumstances. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> Which is why he should have acquainted himself with the true 
> circumstances before making a decision of this magnitude.
>
Pippin:
I'm not sure what you mean. Say Dumbledore does not immediately
assume that Sirius is the spy. In that case he doesn't know who the
spy is, right?   He'd spent a whole year hunting for the spy in vain,
so why should he suddenly think he was going to be able to solve
the problem, or that Voldemort would refrain from attacking Harry
until he did?

Pippin