Sirius, Sirus, and more Sirius (was: Petunia/Headmaster/LVatHogwarts/Mo...)

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 158629

> Pippin:
> Er, the Order exists to keep Voldemort from taking over. 

a_svirn:
Very good point. And we know that the order was effectively 
disbanded between the wars. Remember in OOP:

"Thanks to you, Dumbledore was able to recall the Order of the 
Phoenix about an hour after Voldemort returned,' said Sirius."

That's how it works: no danger – no order. 


> Pippin:
>  What's analogous is that Sirius agreed to send Harry
> away from a loving home in what was not yet obviously
> mortal danger to a future where he might face cruelty 
> and neglect but at least would be protected from the danger
> Dumbledore foresaw.  I was pointing out that far from being a 
> fairytale contrived dilemma that no one would face in real 
> life, there were and are many parents who have had to make 
> such choices.

a_svirn:
Oh, but of course it is contrived. In real life any parents with 
Dumbledore's kind of resources wouldn't have to make this choice. 
Instead of sending their children with Kindertransport they would 
sail together to a safer heaven on their own yacht. The privileged 
and powerful have more choices than the poor and desperate. And 
Dumbledore certainly belonged to the former. 

> 
> Pippin:
> In GoF, where we learn that Rosier, for one, forced Moody
> to kill him. There were two other empty places in the circle
> where DE's had died in the Dark Lord's service. 

a_svirn:
"Forced to kill him"?! I just see Moody at the debriefing 
session, "these crazy folks they just keep getting in my way, 
forcing my hand". 


> Pippin:
> There's canon that these methods did not work for those victims
> whom Voldemort had decided to kill personally. Otherwise
> the Potters would still be alive.

a_svirn:
It's not like Dumbledore's solution was any better. If Harry is 
still alive it's not thanks to Dumbledore's carefully laid plans. 

> Pippin:
> The means of protection you suggest work because they make 
> the target too expensive and dangerous, but they would not work 
> against Voldemort, whose power is free and who no longer
> needs to fear that he will lose his life.
> 
> Fake death would not work. Voldemort *knew* Harry
> had survived, as did whoever took his wand away.  
> Voldemort would suspect a trick.

a_svirn:
Well it would work against death eaters of any variety – suicidal 
and homicidal. And since the blood protection hasn't worked out 
terribly well against Voledemort I don't see how this choice is the 
best possible one. 

> Pippin:
> How are they supposed to guard Harry if they don't know
> what they're guarding against? It didn't work very well in OOP,
> did it.

a_svirn:
Agreed. Another instance when Dumbledore was hoisted with his own 
petard. 

> Pippin: 
> It's not merely a question of demanding explanations. If Harry is
> kept under heavy guard while everyone else in the WW relaxes
> and goes about their business, that alone will be proof of
> what Dumbledore knows.
> 
> But the strength of the power that protects Harry at Privet Drive 
> can be concealed until Voldemort attempts to penetrate it since 
> he does not like thinking about love magic and what it can do.

a_svirn:
He penetrated just fine through Dumbledore's wards. In OOP he 
started to mess up Harry's mind while Harry was still at the Privet 
Drive. 

> Pippin:
> I'm not sure what you mean. Say Dumbledore does not immediately
> assume that Sirius is the spy. In that case he doesn't know who the
> spy is, right?   He'd spent a whole year hunting for the spy in 
vain,
> so why should he suddenly think he was going to be able to solve
> the problem, or that Voldemort would refrain from attacking Harry
> until he did?

a_svirn:
Well he could brief Sirius and see what he had to say, couldn't he. 
It worked in POA, it could work then.