[HPforGrownups] Re: Nagini the snake

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 158811

Carol:
I do think that the affinity existed before
Frank's murder since she reports the presence of the old Muggle on the
stairs and curls up like a family pet on the hearth rug. He may talk
with other snakes, and possess them when he's Vapor!Mort, costing them
their lives, but his relationship with Nagini is different. It's
possible that he's already fed Bertha to her, and he has certainly had
Wormtail use her venom in the potion that creates his rudimentary
body. He is also at the time of GoF using her venom as food.

Debbie:
Ah, this thread isn't dead after all, giving me an opportunity to compliment
Carol (especially since we so rarely agree on anything) for her astute
suggestion that Voldemort is feeding his victims to Nagini.  All those
missing bodies *do* seem a bit odd, otherwise.  And Frank Bryce was very
surprised when Nagini slithered past him without attempting to bite.  Nagini
would be less likely to bypass a good meal if she wasn't confident she'd get
to eat him later.  Besides, killing Frank herself would waste the venom that
Voldemort needed.  It's a very symbiotic relationship between them, yes?

I even found some evidence that a 12-foot snake is not necessarily reticent
about swallowing, erm, *large* meals down whole.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1006_051006_pythoneatsgator.html


And it's probably easier to digest a human than an alligator.  No scales.


Carol:
So, yes,
there's an affinity and more than an affinity--a much more complex
relationship than Dumbledore is aware of. (Too bad Harry doesn't
remember his dream and report the details to Dumbledore!)

Debbie:
I also agree that Voldemort's affinity for Nagini existed well before
Frank's death.  As Carol stated earlier, Nagini isn't likely to be a random
snake that Voldemort picked up when he needed some venom to create a body.
We are shown how carefully Voldemort plans his rebirthing, and how carefully
he chose Harry to provide blood of the enemy.  Voldemort's rudimentary body
also goes into the cauldron with the rebirthing potion, so I have no reason
to believe that Voldemort took less care in choosing the ingredients for his
rudimentary body.  No meager little adder such as the Gaunts kept will do.
He chose a very powerful snake to provide him with venom.

Carol wrote earlier:

>   We see that the creation of Horcruxes alters his appearance. In the
> DADA interview, when he's probably created about four Horcruxes
> (diary, ring, cup, locket), his features are blurred. Harry sees them
> as slightly snakelike, but that may be hindsight. By the time of
> SS/PS, where he can only reveal a face by using another's body,
> they're fully snakelike.
>







Debbie:
Is it possible that snake venom is somehow an ingredient used in the
creation of a horcrux?  However, we don't know anything about how they
are made.  Is there a potion?  If it's just a spell, I'm not sure where
snake venom would fit in.

Another possibility is that Riddle has used Nagini in a different
immortality experiment.  In our mundane Muggle world, snakes are symbolic on
multiple levels; in some cultures they are (or were) symbols of
immortality, as well as a symbol of evil in the book of Genesis.  Since JKR
presents Voldemort's quest for immortality as evil in itself, it's very
logical to expect snake venom to be part of that quest.  In the graveyard
Voldemort tells his followers that "one or more of my experiments" had
worked.  While I think we are expected to assume that language is supposed
to refer to multiple horcruxes, it could mean an entirely different
experiment. In that case, Harry will have more work to do after he's rounded
up the Horcruxes.

Carol:

>   Even if she's not a Horcrux (and I still think she is), she appears to
> be powerfully magical. She doesn't fit the description of any of the
> magical snakes in FBAWT, but I don't think she's just an ordinary (if
> large) snake that he met and befriended on his travels.
>

Debbie:
If Nagini were a horcrux, that might explain Voldemort's ability to possess
her without damaging her in the attack on Arthur.  However, Dumbledore's
guess doesn't seem quite right to me.  She may be a Horcrux, but if so, I
think she must be *more* than just a Horcrux, or Voldemort would not have
wasted a Horcrux on a living thing.

I looked through Fantastic Beasts, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility
that Nagini is a young Basilisk.  Parselmouths can control basilisks, and
they can breed them with nothing more than a toad and a chicken egg.  And
while I think Nagini was around before Godric's Hollow, the killing of the
basilisk in the Chamber of Secrets may have prompted the creation of another
one.  This would also explain Voldemort's ability to possess Nagini in OOP
(in the attack on Arthur) without damaging her.  Maybe not the most likely
explanation, but I'll keep it in my arsenal.

Or, maybe Voldemort has an affinity for Nagini because she is descended from
a snake that belonged to Slytherin himself, who was perhaps the original
Slytherin mascot.  That would certainly appeal to the last remaining heir of
Slytherin.  For this to work, we need to explain where Tom found Nagini, but
she could have been hidden in the Chamber of Secrets.  Or, she could have
belonged to the Gaunts.

Carol:

>   predicting (again) that Harry will slay Nagini with the Sword
> of Gryffindor in the library, I mean, in Book 7
>

Debbie:
How about, instead, Mr. Scarlett (er, Harry the red-robed Gryffindor) with
the knife (or sword, if you will) in the Great Hall?  (The library isn't
public enough for me.)  And don't forget about Fawkes, Dumbledore's own
immortality symbol.  Fawkes has a history of showing up when Harry is on the
verge of death.  Fawkes isn't going to show up again with Gryffindor's
sword.

Debbie


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