CHAPDISC: HBP21, The Unknowable Room

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 158867

> CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 
> 21, The Unknowable Room

<snip exemplary summary> 

> Questions:
> 
> 1. Harry increasingly turns to his Potions book when he is at a 
> loss.  Why has he come to rely on the Prince as his major source of 
> inspiration or guidance, even for things outside the field of 
> Potions?

Carol:
I think he identifies with the Prince and sees for the first time that
Potions can actually be exciting. He surely admires the Prince's
creativity in both potion improvements and spell invention, and the
Prince helps him out in more than one tight spot, so he feels as if
he's a friend. Muffliato is useful and things like the toenail
elongating hex are fun (by Harry's standards--this is a world where
kids routinely hex each other in the hallways, and the more creative
and unusual the hex, the better, in their view). It's ironic, of
course, that he not only admires but likes the Prince. It makes me
wonder what would have happened if he and Snape hadn't started off on
the wrong foot and continually misunderstood each other, feeding each
other's suspicions with rule-breaking, backtalk, and even lies on
Harry's part and sarcasm, unfair point deductions, and detentions that
punish rather than teach on Snape's. For me, it's sad and ironic and
yet a hopeful sign. If he can identify with and learn from Teen!Snape,
maybe he can come to terms with DDM!Snape and understand that he had
no choice but to kill Dumbledore. (Just expressing my hopes and
feelings here. If Snape is just a murderer, then the whole HBP plot
seems a waste of paper.)
> 
> 2. Harry doesn't know the effects of Sectumsempra.  What does his 
> eagerness to try it tell us about him?

Carol:
IMO, it shows that he hasn't yet learned the dangers of succumbing to
curiosity (have you forgotten Snape's Pensieve, Harry?) and is a
little too eager to deal out punishment to his enemies (wanting to try
out the spell on McLaggen). Harry still has a lot to learn; he's still
more of a kid than a man, IMO. (Coming of age at seventeen won't make
him a man in my view. He has to change his actions and his thinking.)
>  
> 3. Harry thinks Snape will mark him down on the Dementor essay.  
> Does Hogwarts strike you as a place that encourages thinking in 
> alternative ways?  Or do classes seem geared towards rote learning?

Carol:
I'm not sure that Harry is right in this assumption. He's the one
who's refusing to consider an alternative method, not Snape, who may
well have good reasons for teaching a method other than the Patronus
Charm for fighting Dementors (and who better than Snape to know one?).
I think that students like young Severus will be stimulated to
experiment with Potions and spells to get beyond the curriculum, but
students like Harry are normally motivated only by personal danger
(Dementors, the TWT). We know that Snape in his Potions classes
encourages following instructions rather than experimentation (though
it would have been interesting to see his approach to a NEWT Potions
class, with students actually interested in and talented in the
subject). It seems to me that the dangers of most of the subjects
(Potions, Transfiguration, Herbology, COMC) don't lend themselves to a
creative approach. It's more important to do it right. But students
who are good at the subjects can experiment with them on their own
time, whether they're Severus Snape with potions and spells or the
Marauders learning to become Animagi.
> 
> 4. Do you think SPEW will be back in Book 7?

Carol:
Oh, gag! I hope not! The house-elves will be back, as we know from
JKR's website, and no doubt something related to the Fountain of
Magical Brotherhood's idealized depiction of relations between magical
beings will come into play, but SPEW itself is surely dead. Hermione
never managed to recruit any members (people like Neville paid for
badges so she'd stop badgering them), and neither the secretary nor
the treasurer has ever carried out his duties. Nope. SPEW has spewed
its last, I hope.
> 
> 5. Why do elves never Apparate with a soft pop, but always with a 
> loud "crack?"

Carol:
Never thought about it. Either, as others have mentioned, its just
their brand of magic, or, as Eddie suggested, the noise guarantees
that they can't sneak away from their masters. I don't think it
indicates that they're less powerful than wizards (less powerful
wizards like Mundungus Fletcher seem to Apparate more loudly than
powerful wizards like Dumbledore, who seems to appear and disappear
silently--or maybe it's a matter of skill and practice. The Twins are
new at it and consequently noisy, and Mundungus is an old drunk. But I
don't think any of these distinctions apply to house-elves.)
> 
> 6. Do you think it's likely that MWPP did not know of the Room of 
> Requirement, or is Hermione right in assuming that the room is 
> Unplottable?

Carol:
Quite possibly they're both true. I doubt that MWPP knew of its
existence or the remaining members would have mentioned it to Harry.
Dumbledore *implies* that he only recently discovered its existence.
But there's no reason why it wouldn't also be unplottable simply as
part of its nature. I do think that's why it doesn't appear on the map.
> 
> 7. In the exchange about the ROR, Hermione shows her logical 
> thinking in determining that Harry won't be able to get inside.  
> Harry displays some intuitive thinking in figuring out who 
> the "variety of students are." Ron is amused about transfigured 
> Crabbe and Goyle.  Does this tell us anything about the relative 
> strengths and weaknesses of the Trio?

Carol:
Nothing we didn't already know about Ron and Hermione, but I can't
recall Harry intuitively arriving at a correct conclusion before.
Usually he seems motivated either by emotions or the impulse to act.
(Rather than figuring things out or empathizing, he wants to *do
something* to fix the problem. See the Second Task and the expedition
to the MoM as examples.)
> 
> 8. After 5-plus years at Hogwarts, is Ron really clueless on how to 
> use a wand to clean up spilled ink? 

Carol:
I don't think Ron is so much clueless as lazy. Why do something for
himself when he knows Hermione will do it for him, whether it's
siphoning ink off the essay or doing his homework. Alternatively, he
*could* be hoping she'll do it as a form of attention since he likes
her but still hasn't quite figured out how to express or deal with his
feelings.
> 
> 9. What do you suppose Hermione was thinking when Ron compared 
> Lavender to the Giant Squid?

Carol:
All arms and no brain?
> 
> 9. It's understandable that Harry dreams of Draco and Slughorn, as 
> he is spending so much time thinking about them.  But, why does 
> Snape appear in the dreams, too? Is Harry making a subconscious link 
> between the three, or is Snape simply the stuff of nightmares for 
> Harry?

Carol:
In this case, he already believes that Snape is implicated in Draco's
plot and is helping him do whatever Draco is doing in the RoR. And
Slughorn would be associated in Harry's mind with Snape simply because
they're both Potions masters. Also, he has two things on his
mind--Draco and the RoR on the one hand and the memory he's supposed
to be getting from Slughorn on the other. His subconscious mind is
mixing them together. 
> 
> 10. Will any of the characters that we have met and who are now 
> deceased, such as Emmeline Vance or Amelia Bones, make an appearance 
> as an Inferi in Book 7?

Carol:
I hope not. In any case, their bodies were found, so IMO the Inferius
would be more likely to be someone who disappeared like Florian
Fortescue. But that would be too horrible. Better to have the Inferi
be people Harry never knew who died in VW1.  
> 
> 11. Is Ron being an insensitive dolt for picking on Myrtle? 

Carol:
Ron is just being Ron, who despite being likeable most of the time has
never mastered tact. But I don't know many teenage boys who have.
> 
> 12. How much of Myrtle's description of sensitive, bullied, lonely 
> Draco is her own imagination?

Carol:
Interesting question. Certainly Draco's predicament is real, much more
desperate than she realizes. But I think she's assuming that a boy who
cries must be what she imagines herself to be--a sensitive soul
(figuratively speaking) bullied by her schoolmates. Some older male
equivalent of Olive Hornsby is picking on poor Draco. I'm not even
sure that she understands that he's in real danger of being killed
since "he says he'll kill me" could be interpreted like Neville's
statement that Gran would "kill" him for breaking his father's
wand--an emapty threat. If she perceives him as bullied and lonely,
she's correct but understating the case. "No one can help me" is true
in his own eyes even though it may be false in reality (could Snape
and Dumbledore have helped him if he'd confided in Snape?).
"Sensitive" is another matter. He's not being sensitive to criticism;
he's reacting with fear and desperation to a death threat.
> 
> 13. Is Hermione's puzzlement regarding Tonks' activities a clue that 
> something sinister is going on, or is this a red herring that is 
> later explained away by Tonks' love for Remus?

Carol:
Just a red herring, I think--though I do wonder if Tonks has been
using an Invisibility Cloak to tail Harry since she shows up twice out
of nowhere--once in the hallway and once in Hogsmeade when Harry
throttles Mundungus.
> 
> 14. If Tonks' underlying concern was for news on the whereabouts or 
> well-being of Remus, is this sufficient reason for her to leave her 
> post?

Carol:
We don't know what her post is. And if she's tailing Harry as I
suggested, the visit to Dumbledore could be a cover story. His office
is, after all, on that floor, even though it's nowhere near that
particular corridor. I think she really is concerned about Lupin, but
I don't think she'd leave an assigned post in, say, Hogsmeade, to talk
about it to Dumbledore.  
> 
> 15. Do you find it strange that Dumbledore would not alert those 
> guarding Hogwarts, especially those who are members of the Order, to 
> his own absences from the school?

Carol:
Are we sure that he doesn't alert them? Tonks could, as I said, have
been inventing a cover story. And he would certainly alert the
teachers who happen to be in the Order. Or maybe he doesn't see the
need to alert Tonks and whoever else is patrolling the grounds or
Hogsmeade to his comings and goings since they're not members of his
staff. But surely whoever is guarding the gates would have informed
Tonks? The more I think about it, the more I think she knew perfectly
well that DD was gone and that she was only trying to conceal from
Harry that she was following him.
> 
> 16. Hermione insists on at least four different occasions in this 
> chapter that Harry is wrong to try to think of a magically-induced 
> way to pry Slughorn's memory from him. Yet, Harry does end up using 
> a potion on himself. Is Hermione wrong in her opinion that the key 
> to unlocking Slughorn is something innate in Harry?

Carol:
I'm surprised that no one has yet stated what to me is obvious. What
does Harry have that no one else has? Lily's eyes, as we've been
reminded in every book and as Slughorn himself notes when we first
meet him. Those eyes, the eyes of the woman (or girl, in his memory of
her) who died in part because Slughorn talked about Horcruxes to Tom
Riddle, are Harry's secret weapon in the struggle to obtain the true
memory from Slughorn--so secret that Harry himself isn't aware of
their power over a sentimental (when drunk) and guilt-ridden old man.
> 
Carol, sorry to respond so belatedly but trying to be more concise
than usual