The Prank in DH (was Re: Predictions for the End (what I think, hope and know)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 167281

> > Alla:
<SNIP>
> > Yes, JKR said that we will find out more about Prank and about 
the 
> > reasons of the hatred between Sirius and Snape, no?. That makes 
me 
> > to believe that Snape will not be just victim of that night. If 
for 
> > no other reason then because right now he **already** looks like 
a 
> > victim, no? To me more means discovering something that we may 
not 
> > yet know.
> 
> Julie now:
> As I noted later in my post, I'm referring to this incident 
> alone where Snape was the victim. I have no doubt that Snape
> also victimized the Marauders whenever he could, though at
> this point there isn't any evidence he actually put any of
> them in mortal danger DURING THEIR SCHOOLDAYS rivalry.

Alla:

Well, yes, I understand that you are referring to the Prank alone 
saying that Snape will be revealed as a victim. And that is exactly 
what I was talking about saying that he **already** looks like a 
victim to me ( I mean, he looks like a victim in their school 
rivalry as well, but I was talking about the prank, just as you 
were).

I mean how much **more** like a victim Snape can look in that night? 
I mean, he was **sent** to be eaten by big bad werewolf, was he not?
( Iccidentally my favorite question - did Sirius imperio him to go 
there or forced by any other means? How did he trick him? But I 
digress)

  
> Julie now:
> I don't know why it reads that way to you, because I stated
> clearly above that it was "a" main motivator, "along" with
> Dumbledore's reaction to the Prank (indicating the latter
> was part of the motivation, and that there were also even
> more motivators). So, no, I do not think the Marauders and
> only the Marauders drove Snape to Voldemort. I suspect 
> Snape's upbringing (where he learned more Dark Arts than
> any other 11 year old entering Hogwarts), his bad choice
> of friends/mentor (Lucius Malfoy), and his personality
> (easy to offense, fragile ego, inability to let go of a
> grudge, etc) all played a part in Snape turning to the
> Dark Lord. And NONE of these motivators discounts that
> Snape had a CHOICE and had made the wrong one, repeatedly.

Alla:

It read that way to me because you did not mention any of those 
other factors probably? :) Except Dumbledore's reaction, which for 
the record I also believe will turn out to be quite the different 
one from what many of us think. But I can be wrong. It is that my 
memory is as good as ever which I keep thinking of. Dumbledore does 
not say I am sorry Severus in responce to his Sirius Black tried to 
kill me. He just says my memory is as good as ever. I read as you 
are the one to talk , but I can be wrong.

 
>> > Alla:
<SNIP>
> > I will most definitely blame Snape for Sirius death, but that is 
> > more connected to that he himself claimed to take part in it. I 
> > interpret it as Snape supplying Voldemort with extrainformation 
> > about him - be it the same info that Kreacher provided or 
anything 
> > else.
> 
> Julie now:
> There's no logic to that argument IMO, because Sirius's
> death was completely *unplanned.* Voldemort had no way to
> know Sirius would be at the DoM, no way to know he'd duel 
> with Bellatrix, no way to know she'd get the upper hand on
> him, etc, etc. Snape may have taken credit, but if he did
> so to Voldemort, and Voldemort had even as much of his brain
> left as he has of his original soul, he'd crucio Snape for
> his unmitigated arrogance. (Apparently at Spinner's End 
> Bellatrix is too insane and Narcissa to distraught to 
> notice the illogic of Snape's claim.)
> 
> As for the analogy, it wasn't a perfect one I know. I was
> just illustrating that actions piled upon other actions,
> even when those actions seem insignificant, can have an
> ultimate effect.

Alla:

Sorry for being unclear. I was trying to say that I blame Snape for 
Sirius death if he **correctly** took such credit. We may not know 
what he did, but whatever it was, if he is telling the truth to 
Bella ( and who am I to not believe him ;)), he is to blame in my 
mind together with Voldemort, period.

It does not look planned now, but we may learn what Snape did and 
picture may change.

I was trying to say that in that instance Snape should be blamed and 
should pay with horrible death ;) NOT because he goated Sirius.


 
> Julie now:
> This doesn't work for me because if Snape went to the Shack
> knowing Lupin was a werewolf and hoping to kill him, it 
> really doesn't make much sense that he's still so angry 
> that Sirius tried to kill *him,* or that he would feel he
> owes a life debt to James. Not when he knew what was waiting
> all along. And, yes, you can say he's some great actor who
> just pretends all this affronted rage, or that he's completely
> irrational to be so irrational in POA. Or something like 
> that...  

Alla:

I do not consider this to be more than a speculation of course, but 
with possible support because of those essays. So, we shall see in 
DH :)

I also do not think that he cannot still be angry at Sirius, because 
really Sirius could still wanted to bring him there ( I so wonder 
how) and it sort of played out differently than Snape imagined it 
would ( speculating wildly).


 
> Julie now:
> I know. I'm basically saying that this incident IS exactly
> what it appears as related by Snape so far (and Lupin). That
> Snape was the victim. (Again, *this* incident, not in every
> confrontation with the Marauders.)
><SNIP>

Alla:

Yeah, I understand as I said above and to me the fact that we are 
going to discover more means that he may not be just the victim or 
something else.

JMO,

Alla