Time-turning

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 167464

Magpie: 
> So why can't his future self to save himself just like Harry's 
> does? The most obvious answer is--because he's dead. He doesn't 
> exist an hour later. In order to go back in time he has to live 
> into the future and then travel backwards through time he's 
> experienced once. He can't do that if he's dead, so he must not 
> have died. That's what happened to Harry--he didn't die; he lived 
> into the future. Only when we ask why he didn't die it's 
> because...his future self saved him. How does that work? He can't 
> save himself unless he's alive to save himself, and he can't be 
> alive to save himself unless he saves himself.
<snip>

Julie:
> I know that is confusing, and the human brain isn't supposed to 
> understand it, as we can't experience time any way except linearly. 
> And since I get most of  my physics from books like Stephen 
> Hawkings "A Brief History of Time" and Discover magazine, I'm not 
> really able to make it more comprehensible! One just has to accept  
> that time in fact isn't linear, that it can fold in on itself, and 
> that past, present and future are constructs of the human mind 
> rather than an objective characterization of Time.
<snip>

Dana Now:

No time isn't linear, time is relative; which means that every human 
being experiences time differently even when experienced at the same 
time. One hour to me can feel like 10 minutes while that same hour 
feels like eternity to someone else, just because we have a clock to 
tell us my 10 minutes was actually an hour does not mean it therefore 
was. It is just a human made law of what is perceived as time.  

To me there is totally no problem with the PoA story line because 
what Harry is experiencing the first time is both the first time and 
the second time rolled into one; meaning the end time. When Harry 
goes back in time and safes his past self the memory of Harry one and 
his perceptions of events are replaced by the end time and therefore 
he can only remember what has taken place when time 1 + time 2 fuse 
together and become the end time. It is irrelevant if Harry could 
have saved his past self or not. 

But if you want to be picky then the first dementor scene in OotP can 
give a very good explanation of what happened the first time without 
any inconstancies, Harry1 did conjure the patronus himself just as he 
did when he was about to be soul sucked in OotP. And when Harry2 did 
it the second time there was no need for Harry1 to do it and the 
memory is filled in with him seeing himself on the other side of the 
bank. The two times fuse as the end time but he actually did conjure 
the patronus at both times and therefore it was Harry and only Harry 
that saved himself and Sirius. 

The time travel story line was not about Harry saving himself and 
Sirius from the dementors but about setting Sirius free after he was 
taken to the castle. If Harry 2 had only traveled back in time to the 
moment of Snape bringing everyone to the castle then nothing would 
have changed about how Harry safed himself from the dementors, he 
only wouldn't have seen himself on the other side of the bank and he 
still would have conjured the patronus himself but Harry2 just 
changed the events by casting it first.  

There is no inconsistency at all, just human perception of what time 
is and how memories are made within that time frame. The end time 
replaces all memories of the first + the second and they become the 
end time even for the time traveler. Harry 1 only remembers his 
second self conjuring the patronus and so does Harry2 for the simple 
fact that Harry2 cast it first in the end time making it unnecessary 
for Harry1 to cast it and why the memory of it is no longer there. In 
the end time it didn't happen. 

Sirius (in OotP) could have saved himself only if he saved himself 
the first time but he doesn't, it is therefore irrelevant to compare 
these events. JMHO

Dana