Tobias & The Angel

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 167465

zgirnius, embarking on post #5 for today...

> Betsy Hp:
> If Snape reported the prophecy to Voldemort on Dumbledore's orders 
it
would mean that (a) Snape would have no reason to feel any remorse,
and (b) Harry will end the series hating Albus Dumbledore. (It would
mean a bit more than just that actually, but I think those two are
enough to be going on with. <g>)

zgirnius:
I'm not a huge fan of the theory for the reasons I have stated. 
However, as DD said to Harry, Snape had no idea when he reported
the prophecy who the nameless faceless kid and parents would be.
He still bears responsibility for following the order, surely?

Also, in the more usual DDM! theories - what do you expect Harry to
make of Snape by the end of DH? I expect Snape to be forgiven by 
Harry, personally. The power of love, etc. There is of course the 
issue that Snape truly regrets his action in reporting the prophecy,
and has/might still do things to atone which might smooth his path.

On the other hand, if this theory is true, quite possibly all of
the above is true of Dumbledore as well. His anguished words in 
the Cave could well express his feelings regarding the Potters,
and his decision to die on the Tower could be his final act
of atonement. If Harry can forgive Snape for these reasons, I
don't see why he cannot forgive Dumbledore.

> BetsyHP:
> An
emotional boy who wore his heart on his sleeve, and who therefore
made a horrible mistake. A mistake he's spending the rest of his
life trying to amend. *That's* a character and a story-line I can
get behind. <g>

zgirnius:
No question about the aesthetic preference re. Snape, here, I 
agree. However, you get a story you have not been expecting 
about Dumbledore in exchange. The cold, calculating chessmaster
of the good guys, forgetting for a moment what it is that makes 
his side good, then coming to love, and eventually die for, the 
boy he helped to orphan. (Though, like I suppose Snape did,
DUmbledore also tried to protect the Potters. He offered to be their
Secret Keeper, for example).


> wynnleaf:
> I realize that Dumbledore somehow got Snape
> to not reveal the secret while in school, and after Snape started
> working as Dumbledore's spy, he'd need to watch out about keeping
> Dumbledore's trust. But what about in between? Why not reveal
> Lupin's secret?

zgirnius:
If Dumbledore was clever enough to get Snape to agree to keep Lupin's
secret (rather than resorting to threats), I would expect Snape to 
keep it. He seems to follow some sort of code of honor. I don't think
he would go back on his word lightgly.

> Goddlefrood:
> Firstly let me emphasise, this is not the Snape I favour. On this
point above I would simply enquire: "Do you honestly believe DD's
story, as *inferred* by Harry, on his reason for trusting
Severus?" 

zgirnius:
My answer is no, but Harry was obviously wrong based on things he
himself knew. The remorse, if Dumbledore was not just giving a
cover story, is something that happened before the Potters died.
(As per Dumbledore's GoF Pensieve testimony).

So the reason for trust would be first of all, that simply by
admitting to what he had done and why it upset him, Snape was
giving Dumbledore secret Death Eater information, and if Snape 
was at this point recruited as a spy by Dumbledore, he may have 
given useful and seemingly loyal service for quite some time in
the first war. Both of these seem a reasonable starting point 
for trust. 

> Goddlefrood:
> Severus does not come across as a man who feels remorse, it
seemed more like a cooked up story to me :)

zgirnius:
Do you have an explanation for the scene in "Flight of the Prince"
in which Snape is described as being in pain like the dog trapped 
in the burning house consistent with the Angel theory? That always
looked like remorse to me. There's at least one other scene I would
point to, but that one seems least ambiguous.