Time-turning

[jmwcfo]

No: HPFGUIDX 167492

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Dana" <ida3 at ...> wrote:
> Dana:
>
> Harry1 survived because otherwise he could not go back in time,
> period.
>
> JKR only writes the end time and shows us events from Harry's
> perspective.
>
> Harry1 did not need saving BY Harry2, because Harry2 would not have
> been there if Harry1 hadn't survived.  However, JKR wants Prongs to
> SAVE Harry and Sirius. The moment Harry2 conjures the patronus,
> history changed and it was only HARRY2 who saved Harry1 because all
> events and memories of the ORIGINAL SITUATION are replaced by this
> action. The ORIGINAL SITUATION becomes non-existent. So even if it
> was Snape who saved Harry1 then Snape's memory of it was erased the
> moment Harry2 changed history. .
>
> It is absolutely irrelevant how Harry1 survived because at the end
> of the day it was Harry2 and no one else because time 1 + time 2 =
> end time and the only time left standing.
>
> Sirius could not save himself because he falls through the veil but
> if someone else would go back in time and chain Sirius to the bed
> so he could not go to the DoM, then Sirius would still be alive and
> no one would have a memory of him ever being there. That is why JKR
> destroys the timeturners just before Sirius falls through the
> veil.
>
> Changing history by changing random events would change the lives
> of too many people. ***JKR doesn't go there. It does not mean it
> would not be possible.***



JW:

I believe Dana is validly invoking Shesezso in the last paragraph
above.  What if JKR's DH were to apply a different Shesezso? The
following is an attempt to apply Dana's reasoning in a radically
different possibility for how the series could possibly end.  Please
note this is NOT a prediction, nor even wishful thinking - merely an
attempt to utilize Dana's logic, but with a different hypothetical
Shesezso.

Briefly, let us assume that some time turners still exist.  DD had
one.  Perhaps HP's parents had another.  Let us further imagine HP
(plus others, as necessary) TT back to the fateful night at GH.

However, the events of that night unfold differently from our
established canon.  HP (and cohorts) are participants, unseen by LV
and the Potters (invisibility cloaks and charms used here - even an
improved version of the Weasely invisibility hat would work).

This time, LV is destroyed completely - the horcruxes were
successfully destroyed previously.  The Potters live.  HP is
scarless.  He is raised by his parents; he never lives with the
Dursleys.  He is a "normal" young wizard in a peaceful WW.  He isn't
even a parselmouth.  He attends Hogwarts.  There is no curse on the
DADA teachers.  Quirrel has no turban - no LV exists to hide under
it.  No Snapish ambiguities.  Peter never blew up the street.  Sirius
never goes to Azkaban, and does not die at the DoM.  No reason for HP
to participate in the TWT.  Cedric does not die. No reason for
Umbridge to be a DADA teacher or Inquisitor.  No reason for those
special lessons from Snape.  There is no thestral ride to the MoM;
the battle never happens.  DD never has to give private lessons to
HP.  DD is not killed - the scene on the tower does not exist.
Malfoy has no reason to try to kill DD - LV was completely destroyed
forever 15 years before.

And because the end-time has been a peaceful and LV-free world,
nobody remembers ANY of the original events as documented in the
septology. (Analogy - Wizard of Oz, with Dorothy not remembering her
bizarre dream.) The epilogue describing the future lives of the
characters relates completely to the end-time scenario.  HP lives a
long life with Ginny or Cho or [insert name here] and they have
children like rabbits have bunnies.

We readers are left holding (literally as well as figuratively) the
only proof that the story as we understood it ever happened - it has
become a parallel universe within an alternative universe, replaced
because of a change in a single event.  We keep this knowledge
because we are outside viewers, not inside participants, of the WW.
We had a window into the WW but were not a part of it.  Our
septologies, movies, web sites, chat rooms etc. are not impacted by
the change in history in the WW.  Of course, we are left debating
events that never happened, not even in the fictional world in which
we thought they happened.

And everybody lives happily ever after - except for us.

Again, the ABOVE is NOT the OPINION of yours truly.  This was NOT a
prediction, merely a what-if exercise.

Thank you for your patience.

JW