Time-turning

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 167553

zgirnius:
> The way I look at it, here is the answer: The past cannot be 
> changed, but when making the decision whether or not to Time Turn, 
> Hermione must consider whether the past is the way it is *because* 
> she is about to Time Turn and make it so. The actual way her past 
> is at that moment might be a consequence of the decision she is 
> about to make. This of course seems illogical because causes should 
> precede effects, but time travel moved the effect back before the 
> cause.

> She knows she cannot change that Bucky lived, or that Harry and 
> Sirius were mysteriously saved, but there are things about the 
> recent past in this instance that she does not know, that might be 
> hugely important to her. She might have saved *two* innocent lives 
> already. (But she has no memory of this, because it is her future 
> self that did it.)

Dana now:

You are contradicting yourself here. If history cannot be changed 
then her future self cannot save these two innocent lives, because to 
be from the future you already must have a past, otherwise the future 
is the present and in the present these events have not yet occurred 
and both Hermione's would not have a recollection of it. You now only 
dedicate the past time to be created by a future self instead of a 
present time self in a first run. 

And according to your version the future self comes out of no where, 
not as a result of time turning because that event also did not take 
place yet, also in your version it is just the future self that 
creates the past just before the original Hermione is entering the 
present time. You say the future self rescued Buckbeak and the 
original would not have a memory of it. Memories are made during the 
unfolding of events, which become memories just as the event ends. 
You cannot have a memory about the future, we call it a vision which 
carries no factual information yet.  

If according to your theory Hermione2 is from the future where the 
past has not already unfolded, then what would that future self be 
doing here, she would not know Buckbeak is about to be sentenced to 
death and she will not know Sirius is about to be soul sucked because 
according to you these events have not yet occurred and the past 
can't be changed according to the same theory.

Let me show you the scene where Hermione disappears just before they 
all are about to enter the charms.

Pg 217 UKed Paperback:

`We're due in Charms,' said Ron, still goggling at Hermione. `We'd 
better go.'
They hurried up the marble staircase towards Professor Flitwick's 
classroom. `You're late, boys!' said Professor Flitwick reprovingly, 
as Harry opened the classroom door. `Come along, quickly, wands out, 
we're experimenting with Cheering Charms today. We've already divided 
into pairs -'

Harry and Ron hurried to a desk at the back and opened their bags. 
Ron looked behind him.'Where's Hermione gone? Harry looked around, 
too. Hermione hadn't entered the classroom, yet Harry knew she had 
been right next to him when he had opened the door. 

`That's weird,' said Harry, starring at Ron. `Maybe – maybe she went 
to the bathroom or something?'  
But Hermione didn't turn up all lesson. 

Hermione wasn't at lunch either. 

Hermione was sitting at a table, fast asleep, her head resting on an 
open Arithmancy book. They went to sit down on either side of her. 
Harry prodded her awake.

`Wh-what?' Said Hermione, waking with a start, and staring wildly 
around. `Is it time to go? W-which lesson have we got now?'
`Divination, but isn't for another twenty minutes,' said 
Harry. `Hermione, why didn't you come to Charms?' 
What? Oh no! Hermione squeaked. `I forgot to go to Charms!'
`But how could you forget?' Harry said. `You where with us till we 
were right outside the classroom!'

End quote canon. 

As you can see Hermione suddenly disappeared when she is about to 
enter Charms, why would she use the time turner here? And then later 
say, oh I forgot to go to charms? 

According to your theory a future Hermione would be in the same 
present time, so how is it that she disappeared? Did the future self 
change the past so Hermione is no longer there suddenly? 

No, Hermione in her first run uses this moment to go back in time to 
attend the Arithmancy class which was at the same time as Care for 
Magical Creatures. Both classes do not take the same amount of time 
and the time traveling Hermione knows both Ron and Harry will not go 
to the common room before they go to Charms and can therefore safely 
wait in the common room until Charms is due but she falls asleep. 

The Hermione that was present with Ron and Harry just before they are 
about to enter the class stops to exist because that was the time 
traveling point and she cannot go passed it, because her previous 
action (from an hour before) sent her back in time at that very 
moment. In essence, the moment they are about to enter the class is 
where the time traveling episode *ends* and were there is only one 
Hermione in the *present* time and she is asleep in the common room 
and it is her that mist to be at that location before her historical 
record vanishes and why Ron and Harry register her being gone. 

If you apply your theory to these events then it makes no sense. 
Hermione does not travel back in time to take a missed class 
(Arithmancy that runs at the same time as Care for Magical Creatures) 
but just creates a duplicate of herself, so she can be at two places 
at once in the PRESENT time. If that was true, then why did this 
Hermione suddenly vanish? And why did her future self go to the 
common room to have a nap? It doesn't make sense at all and it is 
therefore not possible. Hermione lives through the hour FIRST and 
then goes back in time to attend the class she missed (as in not 
being able to attend because it is not in her past yet) in the first 
run. 

Also you say Hermione has no recollection of what her future self has 
done in this time frame, then tell me how is it possible for the 
realtime Hermione to remember what her future self has learned during 
the second class? Wouldn't it be a waist of time if she can't 
remember the class and the information any way? 

In JKR's world history CAN be changed, just because in real-time life 
we can't, does not mean JKR therefore could never have intended it to 
be like that in her World. She DID intent it to be that way and 
therefore she makes a big deal out of Ron and Harry noticing Hermione 
gone, while she was standing next to them just a minute ago. 

All JMHO

Dana