Will the Real Severus Snape please step forward?/Snape the Spy

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 167695

> JW:
> To me, the key question is:  WHY WAS THERE NO GUARD THAT NIGHT?

zgirnius:
Do we know that there wasn't? What if there was, and she was 
overpowered by the Death Eaters and did not have time to send a 
message or warning? She would not have been the first Order guard 
there to run into problems, as you point out.

I use the pronoun advisedly - I ran across the idea that the guard 
may have been Emmeline Vance somewhere and quite like it. Leaving her 
body near the PM's residence was just one more act of Muggle 
harassment under this theory. She and Sirius were mentioned by Snape 
in the same sentence – both deaths would have been outcomes of the 
MoM raid under this theory.

> JW:
> *BTW, one way to end the debate is for everybody to realize that 
Snape
> is Only Out For Himself. He aspires to replace LV.

zgirnius:
I would not rule out a theory that produced a convincing personal 
agenda for Snape, but your suggestion does not seem to fit, in my 
opinion. He has wasted the last 15 years of his life at Hogwarts if 
that is his goal. He should have been networking with former Death 
Eaters. It also does not seem to be something he would want. He does 
not strike me as a person who wants the limelight all the time, to be 
the leader. A respected expert or advisor is a role he seems to 
prefer.

> Magpie:
> Snape isn't just present in the classroom, he's doing what most of 
the 
> teachers do when we see them teaching. This is how magic is usually 
taught 
> and it works. Isn't this a class Ernie says is a good one? 

zgirnius:
Yes, Ernie and Hermione both praise the first class. It is not even 
true that Snape just says 'go to it, folks' and sits back. He does 
just what he always did in Potions:

> HBP,"HBP":
> He swept between them as they practised, looking just as much like 
an overgrown bat as ever, lingering to watch Harry and Ron struggling 
with the task.

So he watches the students make their attempts, and notes when they 
are struggling. Next, he steps in to demonstrate. (Leading to the 
indident where Harry throws him back with a powerful, but spoken, 
Shield Charm).

But the huge difference between him and Dreadful Dolly is that she 
refused to allow practical lessons at all, whereas he in the one 
class we saw most of devoted at least half the time to it.

> Magpie:
> In Occlumency 
> we're given reasons for Harry not to succeed (though in the 
original outline 
> it seemed like Harry was supposed to succeed somewhat) that have 
nothing to 
> do with Snape. He doesn't practice. He wants to see the visions. 
It's 
> totally against his nature. And of course as well, he hates Snape 
and 
> doesn't learn well with him. It seems like a really limp way for 
JKR to show 
> Snape intentionally not teaching. Umbridge, otoh, is a great 
example of how 
> JKR shows somebody not wanting the kids to learn.


> Magpie:
> Occlumency is part of the subset that seems to have some emotional 
> component to it, and while Snape's barking method of teaching might 
not be 
> good for Harry at all, he *is* telling him what to do. That's why 
Harry is 
> supposed to practicing clearing his mind of emotion and thought on 
his own. 

zgirnius:
I reread the firt Patronus lesson and the first Occlumency lesson 
today. These seem to me to be the most similr situations. Both are 
forms of magic that rely on a mental/emotional component. In the 
Patronus lesson Snape talks a lot about what Occlumency and 
Legilimency are and why Harry needs to learn, which was not an issue 
for Lupin of course, but the point is, Snape does explain htese 
things and answer a lot of Harry's questions. Once they move to 
actual practicing, he does give Harry direction, telling him to use 
his wand to defend himself, or repel Snape with his mind as Harry 
does when resisting the Imperius curse. (Compare to making sure 
Hsarry can pronounce an incantation and telling him to think of a 
happy memory).

Harry follows this instruction, and gets somewhere, which Snape 
acknowledges. He then tells Harry what Harry did wrong, and makes a 
new suggestion (clear your mind). (Much like Lupin - it was not a 
good enough memory, try another).

When Harry protests Snape is not telling him how, Snape takes a stab 
at walking him through this process, by suggesting he close his eyes 
and let go of his emotions. Harry at first does not try and Snape 
notes this, then Harry gives it a whirl and Snape reacts by having 
Harry try to repel him again. I just don't see how this is not 
telling Harry what to do and how. 

There are indications their personal issues are getting in the way. 
Snape is certainly snide, and Harry is angry and mistrusting. And we 
know that Harry does not make the effort to practice outside of the 
lessons. But as far as the type and detail of explanations offered by 
Snape, the lesson seems to me to be very similar to a lesson which 
Harry found very useful.