[HPforGrownups] Re: Will the Real Severus Snape please step forward?/Snape the Spy

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 167691

> Goddlefrood:

> The UV was to have been in a later edition, but I'll make my
> comments on it here ;). I have a simple explanation for the UV,
> one that is not yet contradicted by canon. Severus IMO did not
> know, despite his initial boast what Draco had been assigned to
> do by LV.

Magpie:
I should warn you that I have a hard time swallowing this idea no matter 
what theory it's part of. First because I knew what was going on when first 
reading it, and I'm not used to being better at guessing stuff like that 
than Snape.:-) Second because I just don't see Snape doing anything in the 
scene to get the the information. Some of his good lines are meaningless 
because he doesn't really know what he's talking about. Most importantly, if 
Snape doesn't know what Draco's supposed to do, he could have remedied that 
by letting Narcissa finish her sentence.

Goddlefrood:

> Basically what that then means is that Snape, in order to save
> his own skin, had to complete Draco's task. It does not show a
> great personal risk on his part, what it shows to me at least, is
> his recklessness and arrogance :)

Magpie:
I think a UV is always a risk. Not because Snape has to kill Dumbledore, 
though that is a hard thing for someone to do, but because you're agreeing 
to die.. It's reckless or arrogant in a very Gryffindor way--risking his 
lifeon a dramatic whim. Why is Snape taking a suicide pact if he's out for 
himself? This seems OOC for Snape to me--especially considering he doesn't 
know what it is he's supposed to actually be doing. How is he even supposed 
to do it? The only way I could imagine it is if he'd already done it.

Goddlefrood:

I do not deny Snape was presentr in the classroom :|. He basically
said "get on with it", there would be ways of explaining how one
can cast a spell without verbalising the incantation for the same.
At least I would think so. Not dissimilar to how Muggle children
are taught to read without moving their lips, for instance.
Example and practice, fair enough, and if all else fails hold
their lips shut ;). Learning by rote is how I see it, there does
not appear to be a great deal of example being shown., "Here's
how I do it, perhaps you may find these tips useful". Nothing
much like that going on.

The main reason I do not put a great deal of value on Severus's
teaching ability (in respect of DADA and Occlumency) is that he
surely could have done more. Ultimately I do not think his method
was any better than the six-gilled shark's whereby she said read
the instructions and thereby learn. Snape is similar IMO.

Magpie:
Snape isn't just present in the classroom, he's doing what most of the 
teachers do when we see them teaching. This is how magic is usually taught 
and it works. Isn't this a class Ernie says is a good one? In Occlumency 
we're given reasons for Harry not to succeed (though in the original outline 
it seemed like Harry was supposed to succeed somewhat) that have nothing to 
do with Snape. He doesn't practice. He wants to see the visions. It's 
totally against his nature. And of course as well, he hates Snape and 
doesn't learn well with him. It seems like a really limp way for JKR to show 
Snape intentionally not teaching. Umbridge, otoh, is a great example of how 
JKR shows somebody not wanting the kids to learn.

Goddlefrood:
As to other teachers, I'll give you two small examples that
spring to mind. First is Professor Flitwick in Charms in PS. He
shows the students the correct wrist action and intonation for
Wingardium Leviosa. IMO a good example to his class. Also Remus, in the 
Boggart lesson, first shows the class the method for
foolishly ;) waving their wands while performing the Ridikulus
spell before letting them loose on the Boggart. There are others
too. Even Trelawney, actually, gives some practical instructions,
despite the fact that her class is in a different medium ;D

Magpie:
But neither of those apply to what Snape is teaching. There's no spell 
pronounciation to correct or wand method to correct, which are pretty much 
all JKR usually has to work with when it comes to teaching the correct 
method. Occlumency is part of the subset that seems to have some emotional 
component to it, and while Snape's barking method of teaching might not be 
good for Harry at all, he *is* telling him what to do. That's why Harry is 
supposed to practicing clearing his mind of emotion and thought on his own. 
Non-verbal charms don't have that emotional component. It's just "now do the 
spell, but without saying it out loud."  Just like Apparition is "Now do it 
again and focus on your destination" or whatever. If none of the students 
were getting better at it I'd think we'd hear about it. It seems more just 
like something Harry's not good at--which goes along with his personality in 
the same way his being not good at Occlumency is.

It's just that whenever we learn the truth about something and go back and 
re-read scenes, there always seem to be clear clues that make the whole 
thing clear. But if Snape's being an intentionally bad teacher of Occlumency 
and DADA is supposed to be a factor, you need a magnifying glass and a 
protracter to see it, it seems to me.

> Neri:
> The werewolves didn't attack Harry or Hogwarts yet.

Pippin:
Gosh, I could've sworn Fenrir Greyback attacked Harry and
Hogwarts both. How come Lupin didn't know that was going to
happen? So, Neri, does this mean that Lupin is a traitor or just
incompetent? <veg>

Magpie:
D'oh! Good call--should have known if anyone would catch that it would be 
you, Pippin.:-)

-m