Nitwit? - Remus John Lupin

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 167995

In:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/167970

> > Pippin:

> > Lupin would not have had to rat out his friends -- he
> > only had to tell them that he didn't want them to let
> > him out of the Shrieking Shack any more. But, as he says
> > he always managed to forget his guilty feelings when it
> > came time to plan the next adventure.

> wynnleaf

> Exactly!  Lupin not tattling on his friends pales to 
> insignificance when compared to his willingness to -- for 
> years -- make a mockery of Dumbledore's giving him a chance 
> to be a student at Hogwarts and yet keep Hogwarts and the 
> surrounding population safe from a werewolf.

Goddlefrood:

I did not overlook it, I simply failed to mention it ;). It all 
goes to the code of the schoolyard. The kids were having fun, 
why tell anyone who might stop them? Irresponsible, yes, but by 
the time Remus returned to Hogwarts he mostly :) remembered to 
take his Wolfsbane Potion. A sign of maturity and that certainly 
should not be ignored ;;)

Alla's argument re JKR's comments relative to Remus being her 
idea of Remus being a good enough teacher for her own daughter 
also seems prescient to me. The full text:

"If you had to choose one teacher from your books to teach your 
child, who would it be and why? 

A. It would be Professor Lupin, because he is kind, clever, and 
gives very interesting lessons."

>From Online chat, Scholastic.com, 3rd February 2000, available 
here:

http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/author/transcript1.htm

So you consider him kind and clever too, as well as a good 
teacher, ah, thanks for the response :). I had a further 
question to ask Ms. Rowling, that is whether Remus is loved 
by her, she had this to say:

"A. I love, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Hagrid, and Professor Lupin."

Same source as above. Of course they could all be in it 
together ;)

We readers do cut Lupin some slack, that's not to say he may 
not do something contrary to Harry's interest, but I'm failing 
to see what it might be so far.

His running with the werewolves is of interest. They presumably 
run around when not transformed, do they, causing havoc with 
their teaching and other skills? I have already said he has 
flaws, but to extrapolate those flaws to the point where he's 
evil is simply clutching at straws, IMO, naturally ;).

> wynnleaf

> Sirius *does* mention that he and James suspected Lupin.  But 
> even though he was cataloging Peter's crimes, he never said 
> anything that even hints that he considered one of Peter's 
> crimes to be spreading discord or suspicions among the friends.

> That, imo, is fairly decent evidence that Peter did not spread 
> any such suspicions.

Goddlefrood:

There were quite enough in the catalogue for Sirius not to have 
got to them all ;). Speculation on how Peter was trusted to the 
point where Sirius and James were both fooled into thinking he 
would be a suitable Secret Keeper would be of interest. He is 
certainly manipulative from what we were shown in the shack and 
elsewhere and acts in is own interest a good deal, as pointed out 
on the list elsewhere very recently. As I always say about Peter, 
never underestimate him, he could easily have moulded events to 
the point where Sirius trusted him but not Lupin, and the same 
applies to James. Certainly the fact that Remus was a werewolf 
and ostensibly untrustworthy from a wizarding world meta
standpoint can not be overlooked, but to this reader there 
should be more to it than that. Peter fits the case, despite 
the lack of direct canon support.

Having said this perhaps Ms. Rowling, you would like a further 
say. Will every litle loose end be explained?:

"There are things I know about many of the characters in the 
Harry books that might not make it into the books themselves 
... too much information, not enough space!"

Extract from Writer's Digest, February 2000

That is a shame, but there it is :)

Oh, and I too hope we are in for some surprises in DH, but I do 
not expect Remus to be one of them.

> wynnleaf

> As I've pointed out, JKR always does have a surprise traitor, 
> or at east betrayer.  And in order to make it a surprise, yet 
> also make sense, JKR generally sprinkles enough ahead of time 
> that it all makes sense once she reveals who the surprise 
> betrayer actually is.

Goddlefrood:

Agreed, she tends to surprise us, but not so much in respect
of characters' loyalties. Quirrell in PS, Riddle being LV in 
CoS, reverse surprise in PoA and the Pettigrew business, Barty 
Jnr in disguise in GoF, not really in book 5 (subject to 
persuasion ;)), and not really in book 6 (ditto ;). On 
betrayers or imposters at least. There are undoubtedly many 
other surprises, but few so far in respect of character's 
allegiances, IMO. Snape is not yet certain, but that's a 
whole other matter. Other characters' allegiances have been 
set out quite straightforwardly so far, except possibly DEs 
Moody, Hagrid, McGonagall et al in the Order;), oh and Goyle 
Snr and other Death Eaters actually being good guys of course 
:). I exclude the MoM from this as it has been presented as a 
bureaucracy gone mad a la "The 12 Tasks of Asterix", quite 
cartoonish really I reckon :).

Still, not bad ;). That's my opinion, but subject to further 
examples of betrayal and betrayers or other characters not 
turning out to be what we expect with support preferrably.
Scabbers is covered above, btw ;)

In:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/167975

> Pippin:

> And if you don't believe me, there's the Stanford Prison 
Experiment.

Goddlefrood:

And vast numbers of other real world examples, doesn't 
necessarily mean they apply to the WW. We have no comparators 
for flobberworms or blast-ended skrewts either ;)

Your ponts on Neville I generally agree with, but they do not, 
IMO make for an evil Lupin, just a little pettiness would meet 
the case, perhaps?

Of course, Mummies will never have a good press again :|