The Code of the Schoolyard and Potential Surprises in Store ;)

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 168013

> > > wynnleaf

> > > Lupin not tattling on his friends pales to insignificance 
> > > when compared to his willingness to -- for years -- make 
> > > a mockery of Dumbledore's giving him a chance to be a 
> > > student at Hogwarts and yet keep Hogwarts and the
> > > surrounding population safe from a werewolf.

> > Goddlefrood:

> > I did not overlook it, I simply failed to mention it ;). It 
> > all goes to the code of the schoolyard. The kids were having 
> > fun, why tell anyone who might stop them?

> wynnleaf
> You still don't seem to get the point.

Goddlefrood:

I'll stop you there. I have got the point, your misgrasp of mine
appears to be causing some difficulty ;)

For all here at HPfGU I present some expansion on the code of 
the schoolyard. I didn't make this up, it's simply something 
that exists :)

First though allow Argus Filch to have a say:

"I bet you'll think twice about breaking a school rule again, 
won't you, eh?" he said, leering at them. "Oh yes... hard work 
and pain are the best teachers if you ask me.... It's just a 
pity they let the old punishments die out... hang you by your 
wrists from the ceiling for a few days, I've got the chains 
still in my office, keep 'em well oiled in case they're ever 
needed.... Right, off we go, and don't think of running off, 
now, it'll be worse for you if you do."

>From PS / SS - Chapter 15 The Forbidden Forest

Filch, remember, joined the school after Molly and Arthur had 
left. The above clearly implies that in his time as caretaker 
some quite antiquated ;) punishments were used.

That schoolyard code in a nutshell:

(i) Never, but never sneak on fellow students (Marietta has 
been referred before)

(ii) Break as many school rules as possible without getting 
caught. With this one HRH, Fred and George, and many others 
seem to try their best to comply. The Marauders need have 
been no different, they enjoyed themselves, iow, and hang the 
consequences. Not an unfair reading, it seems to be what 
happened, Remus ignored the consequences, irresponsible, of 
course, as I said before, but also insufficient to hang a 
theory of betrayal on. He could have stopped, yes, but he 
did not ;)

(iii) Prefects can have limited exceptions to the above, so 
if the whole argument is relative to Remus's having been a 
prefect then it may have some merit, but not a great deal, 
as prefects ultimately remain students themselves.

(iv) The Head Boy or Girl should show no favouritism, but 
within acceptable bounds not rat out their friends and other 
fellow students except where not to do so could come back to 
haunt them. They should not be seen to be breaking school
rules themselves.

(v) Look out for members of your own house above all others. 
This hardly needs examples from canon as they would be far too 
many to go into :). This also remains after school, what is 
often referred to as the old boy's network or old girl's 
netwrok as applicable.

(vi) Goad the teachers wherever possible. This is a regular
occurence in the HP world too :)

(vii) Never, but never sneak on fellow students. This one is 
so fundamental it bears repetition. Draco has broken this on a 
regular basis, and for that alone he deserves a painful death ;)

There are other less serious ones, but these about cover it. My 
own social and cultural parameters, which include a background 
in various educational establishments not far removed from 
Hogwarts, that is boarding schools associated with nearby towns 
or villages which could only be visited on occasion, lends some 
strength to my view that a very similar situation prevails at 
Hogwarts. I firmly believe that Ms. Rowling's basic system at 
Hogwarts follows an ostensibly similar code for her schoolyard 
:).

Having said all that should one have been caught breeching any 
school rules then the punishments, which I have gone through 
before and will not repeat here, would have been severe. Not 
quite to the point of being hung from a dungeon wall perhaps, 
but certainly not far off :)

Many children, and that is after all what we are dealing with 
in respect of the Marauders and HRH, have little regard for the 
school rules.

JKR also had this to say when questioned about adults' perception 
of what is essentially a children's world (the school part of it 
anyway):

" ... adults surprise me by appearing to forget how powerless you 
feel as a child, how despairing... and just... enormous pressures 
on you as a child, even a happy child..."

That from The Magic Behind Harry Potter, Sixty Minutes (CBSNews), 
3rd October 2002, which can be found in full here:

http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2002/1002-sixtymin-stahl-
reedit.html

It certainly seems to me an eminently sensible suggestion, 
adults do forget what things were like and tend to discount 
the viewpoint, which is IMO a reasonable extrapolation from 
the above quote, they may have had when at school themselves, 
which IMNSVHO would contain the code of the schoolyard, at 
least if it included a  background in a school that were not 
dissimilar to Hogwarts ;)

---------------

On other real world comparators brought in in the post to 
which this responds I would say that they are hardly applicable, 
and in fact on at least one occasion Snape brought the Potion 
of control to Lupin. I doubt if it was prescribed ;). I also 
find it difficult to accept when many compare the Dursleys to 
real world exemplars due to the lack of clear understanding 
shown on how social services might work. They do not swoop in 
on any slight infringement of a child's rights, perhaps they 
should, but they do not.

I also agree with the point that Remus is weak-willed, but I 
can not extract from that a situation where it would mean he 
were evil, as it appears to me even wynnleaf concedes :). If 
it turns out Remus is some kind of hindrance then it would be, 
IMO, through inadvertance rather than any other motive.

--------------

> wynnleaf
> Your argument earlier was that Harry wouldn't get any *more* 
> surprise problems (other than he's already got at the end of 
> HBP), and therefore Lupin wouldn't betray Harry. No unexpected 
> problems for Harry equates to no major suspense. I don't buy 
> that. JKR loves it too much.

Goddlefrood:

This you mean?:

"There will be quite enough problems for Harry to face without 
one more he was not expecting."

Or perhaps this?

"Oh, and I too hope we are in for some surprises in DH, but I 
do not expect Remus to be one of them."

I couldn't find anything that could fit with what this above 
extract says to meet the case ;)

A further misinterpretation of what I said. I only meant said 
there will be few surprises over *character's allegiances* left, 
barring Snape, is what I have said, not the above, sorry if you
feel differently, but there it is.

There certainly will be surprises. Here's a few I expect:

(i) The person who will perform magic later in life will be 
surprising, whether it is Mrs. Figg, Filch or whomsoever as it 
will surprise Harry ;)

(ii) I anticipate that at least one of the Horcruxes will be 
surprisingly easy to find ;)

(iii) There will be surprises in the quest for the Horcrux, 
where they are, what they are is a possibility too and also 
whether the numbers add up.

(iv) Harry will be surprised to find out who R. A. B. is, even 
if we here appear now to have resolved to accept that it is 
Regulus.

(v) There will indubitably be surprise attacks on Harry, one 
of which may be at Privet Drive.

(vi) Aunt Petunia will surprise us all and Harry further.

(vii) The mystery to be left at the end :)

(viii) and

(ix) the

(x) list goes

(xi) on and on :)

Clear enough now?

I was certainly not surprised by the six-gilled shark, she's a 
nasty woman and capable of appaling depravity. She is also most 
likely to be the reason that Fudge held out acceptance of LV's 
return for so long, she certainly has been shown as a strong 
supporter of the misinformation campaign against Harry. Kreacher 
was not much of a surprise either, IMO.

Snape's allegiance may or may not be a surprise, it will be to 
Harry only if he turns out to be assisting Harry in some way, 
as I've speculated on ad nauseam before. ;)

What I do see in these arguments to Remus being other than good 
is a singular lack of any speculation as to how this may affect 
Deathly Hallows, even if it turns out to be correct, which I 
highly doubt.

Try not to be too selective in quoting this material for any 
responses it may bring ;), and do bring in new material if
possible, stressing the same matters over and over is quite
dull I find :)

Goddlefrood who remains far from convinced, and gives little 
credence to arguments that do not come from a perspective of 
experience of similar situations. Also wondering where we might 
extract a comparator from the real world for a bat bogey hex :-?