What Did Dumbledore Know and When Did He Know It

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 174443

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "va32h" <va32h at ...> wrote:
>
> You know I've been thinking - I'm not sure I believe that 
> Dumbledore *was* raising Harry to die....Looking at the timeline 
> of DD's horcrux knowledge, it's not really clear when DD realized 
> that Harry was a horcrux himself. 
<snip>
> It isn't until CoS that Dumbledore has proof that Voldemort has 
> created a horcrux - the diary. 
>
> The issue of Harry being a Horcrux only becomes pertinent when 
> Voldemort gets his body back, two years later. And since the same 
> ceremony that gives Voldemort back his body also gives Harry the 
> means to come back from death - the problem of Harry having to 
> sacrifice himself is already solved. 
> 
> Rather than Dumbledore raising Harry as a pig for slaughter - I 
> would say there's about a 40 minute period where Dumbledore fears 
> that Harry will have to die - permanently - to get rid of 
> Voldemort permanently. And that's the time period between Harry 
> saying "he's back" and Harry getting to the part of the story 
> where Wormtail cuts open his arm. 
> 
> Dumbledore really doesn't know everything from the beginning. We 
> are used to believing that.... 
<snip>
> So - was I stupid for initially agreeing with Snape about the pig 
> for slaughter comment, and everyone else already caught on to this 
> or am I just a rampant Dumbledore apologist or what? I'm not sure. 


SSSusan:
You know, va32h, I never thought DD was 'raising Harry to die' from 
the get-go.  Like you, I figured there was a lot that DD had to 
figure out himself over those years between GH and when Voldy's 
return was confirmed....  

I agree with you that it might have been quite some time before DD 
came to the "Harry has a bit of Voldy!Soul in him and will have to 
die" conclusion.  

However, the sticking point for me is that it appeared DD *did* 
still believe Harry would have to die, even after he understood 
about Wormtail cutting open Harry's arm.  I know you've postulated 
that he only believed it for a few short moments, but is that so?

Am I getting too hung up on what DD said to Snape?  Was DD lying to 
Snape (or, if you prefer, 'not telling the complete story' to Snape) 
when he told him that, yes, Harry would need to die as well?

Because if he WASN'T lying to Snape about this belief (and, yes, he 
could always have been wrong but if he *believed* he was not), then 
that means he didn't give the information to the one person who 
deserved to have it:  Harry himself.

I'll state that upon re-reading the last few chapters, I was *less* 
angry with DD about not revealing this part of "I've told you 
everything."  His claim that Harry should only be told at the very 
last moment, otherwise how could he bear it, seemed to fit the way 
Harry behaved once he did hear the news.  

But still!  Harry only had a few moments to process that 
information, and of course he was in shock to learn it.  How do we 
know how Harry would have reacted if, say, he'd been given the 
information that DD believed Harry needed to die two years earlier?  
WOULD he have been unable to bear the burden?  Or did he deserve to 
know what he would be facing if he elected to face it?

Or am I missing the point altogether?  Did DD not really believe 
Harry would have to die, and he just lied to Snape?

Thoughts? Opinions?

Siriusly Snapey Susan