Malum blah blah blah was Re: Harry using Crucio.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 174448

> Magpie:
> Is Harry worthy of compassion? Absolutely! I can't imagine why he 
> wouldn't be--the very word "deserving" surprised me. I don't think 
of 
> it as exactly something that people deserve or don't. 


Alla:

I was only asking if he is deserving of compassion in your mind. 
Like the extreme example would be to me - Voldemort is not worthy of 
compassion to me.


Magpie: 
> I should clarify, that when I say I'm ahead of Harry, I don't mean 
> I'm better than he is, or that I would necessarily be better than 
he 
> is if I were in his shoes. It's that as a reader, I'm ahead of him 
> that way--it's one of the reasons the whole ending winds up to me 
> feeling like just a big missed opportunity, almost as if Harry 
forgot 
> to get rid of a Horcrux.


Alla:

Then I am not sure I understand. What does it mean you are ahead of 
him as a reader? Doesn't it mean that you empathise with other 
characters more than he does? That is what I took it to mean.

Magpie:
<SNIP>
> With regards to Sectumsempra, for instance--and correct me if I'm 
> wrong because I don't mean to speak for you, but just from the way 
> you've described it here--it seems like you're more like Harry in 
> this way. It's impressive that Harry feels compassion because of 
who 
> Draco is and what he's done. It seems like Justice is a big factor 
> there. 

Alla:

Not quite. It is impressive to me not because of who Draco IS, but 
definitely because of what he did.

Like I am not sure if I could feel compassion towards the guy who 
would just be threatening to kill me and almost succeeded even if I 
had a weapon to defend myself and that guy would almost died.

I know it is a very loose analogy and that Draco was not throwing 
Avada, but Crucio and in light of book 7 attitude to Unbforgivables, 
hmmm. But I still see it as Harry defending himself and yes, I find 
his compassion impressive.

Like I do not think that if I later learn about that guy hard 
childhood or stuff like that, I won't feel anything compassionate 
towards him, but I think the " he almost killed me" would be the 
first thing on my mind.


Magpie: 
> I think if Harry was a character that was about compassion as I 
> understand it (and given JKR described Ginny in HBP as warm and 
> compassionate it seems like she may also be also thinking about 
what 
> I'm calling justice more than what I think of as compassion too) 
it 
> seems like the whole story would just be different because he's 
react 
> to things so differently.  I admit I imagine there'd be a lot more 
> connection with some of the bad characters. I don't think it's 
> surprising that the word "bleeding heart" has come up sometimes in 
> response to criticism. 


Alla:

So basically it all boils down to Harry feeling more for Slytherin 
and Draco Malfoy? Or other bad guys? I mean, we have no other bad 
guys. I mean I do not want to speak for you either, but 
I am asking for clarification. I would like to know what would make 
you consider Harry to be more compassionate character.

Does him feeling for Wormtail counts, because I do not see what 
justice would be in saving him? Does him offering to go look 
for Luna's things counts? Feeling for Neville?  Feeling for Tom 
Riddle? 

Empathising with Snape in the pensieve, despite how Snape treated 
him all these years? And empathicising with Snape again?

You not considering Harry to be extremely compassionate does not 
make my skin crawl , but I am curious what would it take for you to 
consider Harry compassionate?

I mean,  I consider his compassion to be well 
beyond average, but am wondering what would it take for you.


Magpie:
> I mean, remember, I'm responding to the idea that he's *incredibly 
> compassionate* as if this is an area where he's really 
exceptional, 
> but even your own post says that his "humanity" makes his 
compassion 
> short-lived.

<SNIP>

Alla:

Well, yes, I do not consider his compassion to be perfect, but 
certainly beyond average. It WAS short lived. The fact that he was 
**able** to feel it at all for the killer of his parents, I find it 
fascinating. I find that JKR showed me glimpses of extraordinary 
compassion Harry can have and yeah, that culminates in Snape.

I think she symbolises it in Harry at Kings cross trying to help 
even Riddle's soul, even though as DD says it is beyond our help.

So, does Harry shows it all the time? Surely not, but what he shows 
I find amasing.

Showing compassion for Luna IS pretty normal stuff, although Harry 
evolves as well IMO, showing compassion for Riddle? Um, no for me it 
is not. 


Magpie:
 That kind of reminded me of Lupinlore's post about how 
> Harry forgives Snape because he's "Christ-like" as if again, being 
a 
> human would make that a lot more difficult. But humans do do 
things 
> like that. People have different temperments and what's difficult 
for 
> one person is more natural to another. 


Alla:

Harry saw Snape's memories, that was it and he forgave him. Somebody 
on another site wrote something to the effect ( NO, believe it or 
not it was not me :)) that she finds it beyond incredible that Harry 
could forgive six year emotional torture like that.

I can only say me too. I am sure people do that. I do not know many 
people who do it easily.

That is not to say that people whom I know hate the people who hurt 
them, but they often move on, they do NOT name their kid after such 
people and they do not call such people the bravest person they ever 
knew.

I mean, I am loosely analogising obviously, I knew of couple 
occurrences that are rather loose, not like everybody of my friends 
has a person to forgive I am aware of, I am just talking of what I 
know, that's all.

So, yeah I find what Harry did pretty impressive. We are not just 
talking about nasty teacher after all, we are talking about somebody 
without whom Harry life could have been much much better overall.

JMO,

Alla.