Malum blah blah blah was Re: Harry using Crucio.

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 174452

> Alla:
> 
> Not quite. It is impressive to me not because of who Draco IS, but 
> definitely because of what he did.
> 
> Like I am not sure if I could feel compassion towards the guy who 
> would just be threatening to kill me and almost succeeded even if I 
> had a weapon to defend myself and that guy would almost died.
> 
> I know it is a very loose analogy and that Draco was not throwing 
> Avada, but Crucio and in light of book 7 attitude to 
Unbforgivables, 
> hmmm. But I still see it as Harry defending himself and yes, I find 
> his compassion impressive.
> 
> Like I do not think that if I later learn about that guy hard 
> childhood or stuff like that, I won't feel anything compassionate 
> towards him, but I think the " he almost killed me" would be the 
> first thing on my mind.

Magpie:
Can't argue with that--if somebody was going to kill me and I 
defended myself I think that'd be the first thing on my mind too.


> Magpie: 
> > I think if Harry was a character that was about compassion as I 
> > understand it (and given JKR described Ginny in HBP as warm and 
> > compassionate it seems like she may also be also thinking about 
> what 
> > I'm calling justice more than what I think of as compassion too) 
> it 
> > seems like the whole story would just be different because he's 
> react 
> > to things so differently.  I admit I imagine there'd be a lot 
more 
> > connection with some of the bad characters. I don't think it's 
> > surprising that the word "bleeding heart" has come up sometimes 
in 
> > response to criticism. 
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> So basically it all boils down to Harry feeling more for Slytherin 
> and Draco Malfoy? Or other bad guys? I mean, we have no other bad 
> guys. I mean I do not want to speak for you either, but 
> I am asking for clarification. I would like to know what would make 
> you consider Harry to be more compassionate character.
> 
> Does him feeling for Wormtail counts, because I do not see what 
> justice would be in saving him? Does him offering to go look 
> for Luna's things counts? Feeling for Neville?  Feeling for Tom 
> Riddle? 

Magpie:
Well, yeah, given that it's the bad characters that are more 
difficult to feel compassion for. 

Basically, I think it goes off in the wrong direction to make it 
about Harry and what would make him more compassionate, because Harry 
is who he is. I don't have a problem with Harry. But I think that the 
story Harry is in just doesn't ultimately say anything that 
significant about compassion. It just seems like there's a bit too 
much spotlight put on moments that aren't that big of a deal when it 
comes to this rather than it feeling like a bit concern that the 
author is exploring. Like when Harry sees Snape's memories in the 
Pensieve it doesn't really feel like a big emotional moment for me. 
Harry's reaction is fine, I've got no problem with it. I don't really 
have something that he *should* have done because like I said I don't 
think it's a flaw in Harry I think it's just I read these 7 books and 
they really didn't seem real big on this subject so no, it's not 
something I much associate with Harry. He's compassionate when he 
needs to be compassionate (though I can't think of any moment in all 
of canon when I was *impressed* by Harry's ability to feel it--
including the scene where he gets involved in Riddle the orphan's 
story and identifies with him for a second). When he sees Snape's 
tale of how he loved his mother and protected him he no longer hates 
him, it's fine (I think it would also be possible to write a story 
with this kind of teacher where the kid winds up feeling the same 
compassion without quite that dramatic a revelation as well). But 
when I think of the series, of which Harry is the center, I really 
think it's heart lies more in the justice angle. 

I believe it might have been Jessica Mitford who said something about 
how we can't always protect the innocent but we can punish the 
guilty, and that sentiment just seems far more where the heart of the 
series is, with all those delicious smack downs that are so well-
deserved. 

But obviously I now realize I phrased it in a way that was rude and 
suggested other peoples' opinions were invalid. I apologize for 
that.I really wasn't thinking about other peoples' opinions being 
invalid, but was disturbed at the ideas in the story being put across 
as being compassionate when I found the series so lacking in it. I 
don't think it's wrong to think that Harry is being compassionate in 
any of these scenes, it's just that to me making this an extreme 
trait of his character is probably like what it sounds like to other 
people when they hear that Snape's really the victim in his 
relationship with Harry or something. 

Also, just to make this clear, my use of the phrase "makes my skin 
crawl" was badly chosen. It was supposed to be a joke on my jumping 
in to post at all, like saying that I knew I was being annoying but I 
had an allergic reaction to hearing this so was compelled to post. I 
didn't mean that people thinking Harry was compassionate made my skin 
crawl because it was so stupid or anything like that. It was supposed 
to be a joke on my overreaction and need to post about it.

-m