Wands and ...Deathly Hallows plotline - Undercurrents

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 174502

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Angel Lima" <angellima at ...> wrote:
>
> Steve:
> 
> In a very metaphorical way, I see the Hallows as 
> 'The Last Temptation of Christ'. Once Harry has
> a basic understanding of the Hallows, he stands
> at the crossroads of his life. Does he follow the
> Path of Power or the Path of Self-Sacrifice? 
> 
> ...
>  
> Angel:
> 
> I love your logic!  The fact that Harry makes a 
> choice which I had always assumed was the integral 
> grain in Rowling's work.  Harry's "choice" was 
> lacking to me because he never underwent the fury of 
> internal struggle.  

bboyminn:

Glad you like my logic. But Harry did go through an
internal struggle, from the moment he thinks he's
figure out the Hallows, while still on the 'camping
trip', he is obsessed with them. Ron and Hermione
are determined to focus on Horcruxes, but Harry 
simply can't get his mind off Hallows and the 
immense power they represent. Further he is furious
with Ron and Hermione for not seeing what he sees.

After the death of Dobby, Harry does some long hard
thinking about what they have to and will do next. 
Torn between Hallows and Horcruxes, after a long
obsession, and after thinking long and hard, he
decides on abandoning Hallows even though he 
understand the immense power they represent. Even
understanding that by focusing on Horcruxes, he is
literally giving Voldemort the most power Wand in 
the world. A wand he knows he will one day face.

I would say that was a wrenching agonizing choice.

> Angel:
>
> Jesus' last temptation was something meaningful to
> Him.  
> 

bboyminn:

As you note later, I was using Christ as an illustration,
not as an example. JKR never claim that HP was an 
analogy, metaphor, allegory, or illustration of Jesus. 
She never claimed her works had religious 'overtones'. 
The most she ever said, is that her works had religious 
'undercurrents', which is a very different thing.

Any morality tale, any struggle between the forces of
Good and Evil is going to have religious undercurrents;
all religions - Muslim, Buddhist, Shinto, animistic, 
Hindu, Christian, etc.... But that is very very very
different than trying to re-write the story of Christ
in a completely different framework. Many modern movies
are actually re-writes of Shakespeare, but that is not
at all what JKR has done. She has written the story
of a hero, even a flawed hero, who struggles with every
aspect of life, but in the end, despite flaws along the
way, he does the right thing. Only in that universal
framework does this work have religious /undercurrents/.


> Angel:
>
> Harry's "choice" is watered down by three facts.
> 
> He was never interested in power (as he had proved 
> already in PS which for literary purposes is meaningful
> - a return home of sorts?  However Harry makes the same
> choice in every book.  It is the one consistent factor 
> with him and it hinges on him being inherently good not
> CHOOSING to do good).
> 

bboyminn:

Harry does make the same choice in every book, but it
is NOT the choice to accept/pursue, or to reject
power. It is to be selfish or selfless; Harry always
chooses to be /selfless/. 

But NOW he has a job to do, a dark and terrible and
near impossible job to do against an overwhelming
enemy. This creates a very different situation. Never
has Harry had the opportunity to choose a path of 
power that would serve his desperate need so well.

Logically, from his perspective at the time, if Harry
could bring together all the Hallows, he would be 
unstoppable, he would be invincible. When you are 
facing such of overwhelming force, it is extremely 
difficult not to chose to bring that power to bear on 
your own behalf. 

That is an extreme temptation in my book; an almost
impossible temptation for any human to resist. Yet,
once again, Harry choses to be selfless. 

> Angel:
>
> He realizes he is the master of the hallows before 
> he physically set out for the last 4 er 5 horcruxes.
> 

bboyminn:

Sorry, you lost me here. It is only after he has survived
death that he realized the full implications of his 
mastery of death. I don't see how he realizes he is
'Master of the Hallows' before that. 

> Angel:
>
> After he made "the choice" people were still grouped
> into good and bad.
>

bboyminn:

Again...confused. Harry, long before this, realizes that
people are /shades of grey/. We have many examples in 
the book that implant this idea in his head, not the
least of which is Sirius specifically saying it.


> Angel:
> 
> Primarily though they made very different choices -
> Harry's choice was to defeat Voldemort. I believe 
> Jesus' choice was to save us.
> 
>  
> PS I understand you are not saying Harry was playing
> the role of Christ but I gathered off posts here that
> Rowling did ...

bboyminn:

Harry is not Christ. Harry Potter (the Books) are not
the story of Christ re-written. Neither JKR nor I 
(as you acknowledge) have ever made this claim. HP books
do not really have significant religious overtones, but 
because they are a story about good struggling against 
evil and winning, they certainly have certain
non-denominationally religious and universal 
undercurrents. 

I think these /universal undercurrents/ are what make
Harry Potter so popular across such a wide range of 
cultures and religions.

But then...that's just my opinion.

Steve/bboyminn