[HPforGrownups] Re: Requiescat in Pace: Unforgivables

[Christine Maupin]

No: HPFGUIDX 174640

 > > colebiancardi
 > <SNIP of the whole post>
 > > (sure the DE's use these spells - but that doesn't make it right 
 > for
 > > the Trio or the Order to use them either.  Wrong is wrong, imho)
 > 
 > 
 > Alla:
 > 
 > So, was it wrong for Snape to use AK? I mean, if one unforgivable 
 > spell can be NOT unforgivable sometimes, why the others cannot?
 > 
 <snipping>
  colebiancardi:
 
>yes, it WAS wrong for Snape to use the AK.  I still have not seen any
 >resolution, via canon, that he actually used the AK on DD.  Remember
>all the threads on Snape & the AK prior to DH's?  I tried to bring it
 >up the other day, if anyone had found canon in DH's that it was a true
 >AK that Snape used, and not a non-verbal spell masked as an AK.
 
Christy:

Why do we find it so difficult to take things at face value?  There is nothing in canon to suggest it wasn't Avada Kedavra that Snape used to kill Dumbledore.  Since they are the words he said and Dumbledore died, I'm inclined to believe that's the spell he used.  And, I can't think of any time someone verbally said one spell while nonverbally using another.  Did I miss something?  (If so, someone please cite the exact occurrence.)
Yes, JKR uses foreshadowing, yes JKR leaves us clues and in doing so titillates, and yes JKR leaves some things to our own interpretations (and look how much fun we're having because of it), but I can't recall JKR intentionally misleading us, at least not without resolution (e.g., we, along with the characters, where misled when Barty Crouch, Jr. posed as Mad Eye for an entire school year; but, we, like the characters, learned the truth).
 >Snape avoids using Imperius on Dung - he instead uses a confunding
 >spell.  I believe that Snape does avoid using Unforgiveables, which
 >until canon proves otherwise, I don't believe he used an AK on DD in HBP.
 >(but even if he did, it *was* still wrong)

Christy:
Based on Harry's experiences with Imperius and I think Rosemerda's (I don't have my copy of HBP with me, so I admittedly can't be sure of that), and based on the fact that some wizards claimed they were under Imperious during Voldemort's first rise to power, there seems to be a certain awareness of being under Imperious -- at least after the fact (and in the case of someone who can resist it, like Harry, awareness during the fact).  Snape couldn't very well have Dung remembering that he talked to Snape and got the idea of using decoys from him.  So, in this case, the Confundus Charm was more appropriate than the Imperius Curse whether or not Snape might have wanted to use and regardless of being an "Unforgiveable."

There has been much said about Harry enjoying using the Cruciatus Curse on Carrow.  I don't see that -- yes, he meant it and he meant it to punish.  But, I don't see that as being the same as enjoying it.  (If he enjoyed it, then it would have replaced Expelliarmus as his signature spell.  Voldemort obviously enjoys using, Bella obviously enjoys using it, and I can and do make a distinction between how they use it and how Harry uses it.)  I think Snape meant it when he used Avada Kedavra to kill Dumbledore (and no one will convince me that he didn't use that spell because JKR tells me he did in HBP), but I don't think he enjoyed killing Dumbledore.

Did Harry have to use the Cruciatus on Carrow?  No.  Did he consider himself justified in using it?  Yes.  Was it morally wrong?  Yes, I believe so; but I also understand what could drive him to use it given everything he has learned, seen, and experienced up to the point he used it and can therefore forgive him and not hold it against him.  Now, if he made a habit of using it...that would be different.  But, we have no reason to think that he does...it was an isolated incident in the heat of the moment...

Christy

       
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