More on Snape's appeal; Is Snape like Sirius?

[Judy]

No: HPFGUIDX 175221

Prep0strus asked why some people like Snape, but not Sirius or James:
> > it confuses me greatly why the people who can forgive so many 
> > more flaws, so much more evil in Snape take the (in my opinion) 
> > much smaller flaws of the good characters and vilify them for it.

and I replied:
>I feel for Snape because he is SO alone. 

I actually had more of an asnwer to this question, but had to go off 
and make dinner.  

I think that another reason why so many fans like Snape is that they 
find it emotionally satisfying, or perhaps comforting, that although 
he is mean on the surface, he has others' best interests at heart. Of 
course, this caring applies most clearly to Harry, who thinks that 
Snape hates him and even (at least in Book 1) thinks Snape is trying 
to kill him, and then finds that Snape has been trying to save him. 
But it also applies to Neville, who is repeatedly insulted by Snape 
and then is protected by him at various times, and even to 
Dumbledore, whom Snape *kills*, but turns out to be trying to help.

There really aren't any other characters who do this. Although Sirius 
is initially believed to be hostile to Harry, that turns out to be a 
simple mistake -- "He's at Hogwarts" refers to Peter, not Harry.  
This isn't how it works with Snape. When he calls Neville "Idiot 
Boy," for example, he really does mean Neville, not, say Goyle. But, 
that doesn't mean he'll let Neville get choked by Crabbe, or tortured 
by the Carrows. 

The closest to another character who acts mean but really cares 
underneath is probably Draco. Many fans *wanted* to believe that he 
was protecting Hermione when he told her to keep her "bushy head 
down" at the Quidditch World Cup, but we never get any canon saying 
that. 

In my own case, I wonder if part of the appeal of Snape to me is that 
one of my own relatives was always very cruel growing up, and that I 
would like to believe that this relative didn't really mean it. I 
hope that's not why I care about Snape so much, but it could be.

If readers see Snape as caring, even though he acts mean, does that 
mean they will excuse cruelty in their own lives, perhaps even put up 
with being abused themselves? Well, my hope is that if readers are 
using Snape as a way to feel better about abuse in their own lives, 
the abuse happened in the past, maybe when they were children. I 
remember, years ago, someone on this board said they wondered about 
the real-life male partners of all the female fans who were obsessed 
with Snape. I found this question pretty amusing at the time. My own 
husband is a saint. (Which is why he has put up with me spending all 
my time on Harry Potter discussions lately.) At any rate, the Snape-
like character who is bad on the surafce but good underneath occurs 
in many other literary works, not just the Potter books. 

va32h wrote:
> I don't think it is any coincidence that Snape and Sirius are 
> actually very much alike. Both fiercely loyal to a friend (Lily, 
> James), both consumed with guilt [snipped rest of list of 
similarities]

I agree that there are a number of ways in which Snape and Sirius are 
similar. One important similarity that I would add to your list is 
that both Sirius and Snape act as if Harry were James. It is as if 
time had frozen forever, for both Snape and Sirius, on the night 
the Potters died. The closer Harry gets to the age James was at 
death, the more Sirius and Snape seem to see him as being James.

I think, though, that Snape's introverted personality is very 
different from Sirius' extraverted one, and many of his life 
experiences were different, too.  

Also, on the topic of why so many people like Snape but not James and 
Sirius, I think it's quite easy for some fans to become emotionally 
involved with Snape because he's such a central character. Then, when 
James and Sirius bully him (and many, many fans believed that they 
did, long before Book 5 came out), the attachment to Snape results in 
hostility towards James and Sirius.  Not all Snapefans feel that way, 
but quite a few do. 

highland_holly wrote:
> One thing to remember throughout the analysis of the actions of the
> Marauders is that *almost* everything we know of them in their youth
> we have seen through SNAPE's eyes via his memories.  I believe that
> perception is everything.  Ask 5 people to recall an occasion or 
> event and you will hear 5 completely different stories.

JKR has said that the Pensieve is objective, reporting even things 
that the rememberer initially overlooked.  It's true that we don't 
see all of the events -- we don't see James and Lily dating, for 
example -- but what we do see, we can assume happened just that way. 

houyhnhnm102 wrote:
> I had the same reaction to the letter.  I find Lily's 
> marriage to James mystifying as well.... I even get a little bit 
> of a whiff of some kind of rebound thing going on.  Rowling 
> has said that Lily might have come to love Snape romantically 
> if he hadn't chosen a path she could not follow.  It is a 
> literary cliche after all, the woman who must finally give 
> up on the outcast who has her heart and marry the 
> respectable "good marriage prospect" whom she doesn't 
> really love, but for whom she strives to make good on her vows.

Oh, I'd love to think that Lily married James on the rebound from 
Snape! I don't see anything for or against that in canon, although it 
does seem like James had no real chance with Lily as long as she and 
Snape were friends.  

Would *Snape* have believed Lily married James on the rebound? I 
wonder!

Before I sign off, I just want to add that I agree with a lot these 
things said by Montavilla47: 
> You know, teachers do that and you just learn to live with
> it.  And you keep your toad in your room, instead of carrying it 
> around with you.
> Even in the first three books, I sort of viewed Snape as the kind 
> of teacher that all the students complain about no one takes 
> very seriously.  Especially when he's revealed as protecting Harry
> in the first book...
>
> ...fighting for good, loyalty, truth, and
> kindness, the only one not exhibited by Snape is kindness.  Kindness
> is important.  But it isn't everything.
> Snape went with the people who were treating him well, cheering his
> sorting and helping him study for classes and appreciating his 
> talents. Why the heck would he want to join the people who were 
> hanging him upside down, pantsing him, and trying to feed him to a 
> werewolf? What allegance would he have to the Headmaster who 
> allowed those things to take place?
>
> Snape wasn't "evil" as an 11-year-old, or as a 17-year-old.  He was
> a kid, trying to make sense of the world around him.  He made the 
> wrong choice.  It seems obvious to us that it's the wrong choice.  
> But it probably wasn't that clear to Snape.  

I want to add that I think *some* 17 year olds are evil. But I don't 
see Snape as being evil at that age, though, any more than Dumbledore 
(who may have killed his own sister) was. 

I also agree with Montavilla47 on whether Lupin & Hagrid had more 
incentives to turn evil:
> What was Hagrid's incentive to choose evil?...
> After all, Tom wasn't recruiting at that point. Even if he was, 
> he'd just framed Hagrid. Why on earth would Hagrid throw in his lot
> with Tom, even assuming he had an offer?...
> I think the same question applies to Lupin.  Lupin is presented
> as someone with a medical condition that turns him into a 
> monster for about three days a month.  Other than that, there's
> no reason for him to be any darker than James.

Yes indeed, and remember, Lupin and Hagrid both had very, very strong 
support from Dumbledore.  Nothing indicates that Snape did; in fact, 
canon suggests that he did not.

-- JudySerenity, signing off