Of Sorting and Snape

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 175383

> lizzyben:
> 
> But on the meta level, it's horrible. Because, ultimately, it's JKR 
> selecting those memories, and she's selecting those memories for a 
> reason. There's an agenda here, IMO.(Warning: here's where this post 
> stops making sense - this is just my reaction to the chapter).
> 
> OK. There is a story here, but I felt like the author's dislike for 
> the character got in the way of telling that story in an effective 
> way. Because in this chapter, I could hear the Author practically 
> screaming in my ear, and the author was saying "EWWWWW!" First, 
> little Snape is always described in the most unflattering, off-
> putting possible way - he looks "greedily", he's watching Lily 
> through the bushes like a stalker, he's wearing weird clothes & has 
> dirty hair. EWWWWWW! He's pathetic, he's desperate for friends, but 
> he's nasty and mean too. EWWWWW! At the age of nine, he's already a 
> bad kid - he drops branches and wants Lily to be in (gasp) 
> Slytherin! EWWWWW! He wants to be friends with Lily, but he's 
> defending Mulciber! EWWWW! He's crying over Lily's letter, & ripping 
> up a photo! EWWWWW! Even his love is twisted & wrong! And etc. By 
> the time I reached the scene where DD/JKR tells pathetic, wretched 
> Snape "you disgust me," I just wanted to rush into the story and 
> say "OMG, OMG leave him alone already!" 

Montavilla47:
LOL.  Lizzyben, that's exactly the reaction I had!  But, I wonder...

I don't think that sequence was written for us (those who already
love Snape and think the best of him).  I think it was written for
those who took the obvious reading from HBP--that Snape was a
bad 'un.  If Snape had been presented neutrally in the memories,
it would have been too great a shock to the system.

And, judging by the number of people who have posted here and
other places that ZOMG!  Snape was good all along! I understand 
that the chapter works intellectually.  But emotionally, I was right 
there with you.

lizzyben:
> Those memories pounded in, again & again, that no, Snape actually 
> had no inherent moral compass at all. And the break-up of the 
> friendship was totally his own fault. And his love was obsessive and 
> weird, because Slyths can't have normal relationships. And he hated 
> Harry for no reason! And the only morals he ever got were from Lily 
> & DD - his exposure to the golden glow of Gryffindor goodness 
> diverted him from his natural selfish slimy Slytherin ways. And, 
> most importantly, he didn't really change. Because people can't 
> really change in this universe. 

Montavilla47:
I guess I should have seen that coming since HBP, when we are 
shown that Voldemort was damned from before he was born,
because of the way he was conceived.  

What tripped me up was that statement by Dumbledore that
"it is our choices that show who we are."

But I should have realized it.  Choices "show" who we are.  They
don't "define" what we are.  They don't "make" us who we are. 
They only "show" it.   So, we already are who we are *before*
we make the choices, and therefore we cannot choose to 
become someone else.

lizzyben:
> Snape tries, he really tries, but he 
> fails because of his naturally bad Slytherin character. It's a 
> redemption story without a redemption. This is reinforced by the way 
> Snape dies, and is left in the shack as worthless. How we never see 
> any sign that Snape gets an afterlife (unlike the Elect). How Snape 
> is never given forgiveness or absolution before his death. He is, 
> still, judged by the Author as unworthy.
> 
> From a Calvinist perspective, Snape was damned from the moment he 
> entered Slytherin house, actually from the moment he was born, & 
> nothing he did could really change that. That's why each memory 
> shows him doing something "bad", from nine years old - reinforcing 
> the Calvinist message that he was effectively born bad. This is why 
> we shouldn't feel bad when he is sorted to the House for bad 
> children. Lily couldn't help him, nobody could help him, because no 
> one can change who they are. (This goes back to the agonized child 
> we're not supposed to help in King's Cross). It's a totally harsh & 
> deterministic view of human nature, but that's what's offered. 
> Basically, I've just been trying to figure out if Snape gets to go 
> to heaven. And based on the cosmology of the Potterverse, it seems 
> like the answer is no. That breaks my heart, for real.

Montavilla47:
I can't help but think the Snape went somewhere better than Heaven.