Of Sorting and Snape

[lizzyben04]

No: HPFGUIDX 175410

houyhnhnm:

I think she did select those memories for a reason.
Every memory contains a point of similarity between
Snape's experience and Harry's, making it possible for
Harry to identify with Snape.
<snip>So I don't think the author chose these particular
memories to make Snape repulsive, but rather to make
Harry's change of heart towards Snape, and especially
his acceptance of the awful thing he had to do, convincing.

On a personal level, I didn't find the portrait of Snape
in "The Prince's Tale" repulsive at all, but rather very
touching. That's probably because of the experiences I
brought to the book.

lizzyben:

Yeah, I warned that my reaction didn't make sense, but I felt a need 
to get it out there for some reason. I perhaps didn't find Harry's 
sudden (mostly off-page) change of heart as convincing as you did, 
but I agree that there was enough in the memories for Harry to 
identify w/Snape. And it's great that Harry accepts Snape as a man 
of bravery & great love - enough to name his child after him. But 
weirdly, IMO, there wasn't enough for many readers to feel the same 
way. It's almost like JKR planned a Snape redemption/reversal story 
& couldn't bear to write it? There's some gaps there, IMO. If Lily 
loved him, I'd have liked to have seen evidence of that in the 
memories. IMO it isn't really there.

Carol responds:

I get a very different picture, not a bad kid but a lonely, abused
child who identifies with and wants to be friends with the Muggle-
born witch of his own age who's the only non-Muggle in his village 
besides himself and his mother. The tree branch is accidental magic 
(he doesn't have a wand yet) much like Harry's accidental magic at 
the same age and later--not on a par with blowing up his aunt but 
similar to releasing the boa constrictor or making Aunt Marge's 
brandy glass explode in her hand. These memories don't show a bad 
boy. They show an odd but eager little wizard trying to educate a 
little witch about the mysteries of the WW and Hogwarts. 


lizzyben:

I totally agree w/you. And I don't think Snape was a bad kid, 
either. Nor do I agree that people are simply "born bad" w/o real 
choices - the whole concept of predetermination goes against 
everything I believe in. I do think that JKR is putting across a 
certain view of Snape, but we certainly don't have to agree with it 
anymore than we have to agree w/how much she likes Dumbledore or 
Harry. 

> Montavilla47:
> LOL.  Lizzyben, that's exactly the reaction I had!  But, I 
wonder...
> 
> I don't think that sequence was written for us (those who already
> love Snape and think the best of him).  I think it was written for
> those who took the obvious reading from HBP--that Snape was a
> bad 'un.  If Snape had been presented neutrally in the memories,
> it would have been too great a shock to the system.


lizzyben:

At least I'm not alone! It does seem like the "bad Snapers" like the 
ending more than the "good Snapers" - probably because it did come 
as surprise & they may have had less invested in the character.

> Montavilla47:
> I guess I should have seen that coming since HBP, when we are 
> shown that Voldemort was damned from before he was born,
> because of the way he was conceived.  
> 
> What tripped me up was that statement by Dumbledore that
> "it is our choices that show who we are."
> 
> But I should have realized it.  Choices "show" who we are.  They
> don't "define" what we are.  They don't "make" us who we are. 
> They only "show" it.   So, we already are who we are *before*
> we make the choices, and therefore we cannot choose to 
> become someone else.

lizzyben:

I should have seen it coming with the character names. Now really, 
how could a family named "Mal"foy ever be anything but bad. Poor 
little "Mal"colm "Bad"dock is doubly bad - in two languages, yet! 
Severus Snape sounds like a snake  - evil! Slytherin sounds vaguely 
foreign & suspicious - evil! Even Crabbe & Goyle sound like species 
of bugs. Everything about it screams out to us that these characters 
are DOOMED to bad guy status from the moment they were named. It's 
like Snidely Whiplash & Dudley Do-Right all over again. From the 
outset, you know that Snidely Whiplash is not ever going to be the 
hero of the cartoon. He's got an evil name; that says it all. 

> Montavilla47:
> I can't help but think the Snape went somewhere better than Heaven.

lizzyben: 

Yeah, me too. The Potterverse Elect aren't, for the most part, 
people I'd like to hang out w/in the afterlife either. Too many 
Gryffindors there making noise & being rambunctious. And it's to 
JKR's credit that she created a character so vivid that I actually 
worried about his immortal soul. I even read fan-fic to find a happy 
ending!(The happy ending involves Snape going to King's Cross 
station, then getting onto the Hogwarts Express one last time. Lily 
sits next to him to accompany him on his final journey home.) 
Cheesy, but satisfying.


lizzyben