Ungrateful Werewolf ( Was Re: Character Given A Reprieve)

Thu Aug 16 17:17:50 UTC 2007

No: HPFGUIDX 175575

Mim:
> Finding out that the Prank had been before Snape's Worst Memory I 
> was also surprised that the Marauders didn't worry about Snape 
> revealing Lupin's status.
> 

Lanval:

Ah, back to the Shrieking Shack. :)
I admit I was surprised too to have the infamous prank 
happen before SWM. I'm moreover having a hard time finding anything 
definitve in the books that made us all believe it was a sixth year 
event? Anyone find it yet?

But I'm rather glad. For one thing it tells us without doubt that 
what happened in the SS was no life-shattering moment, no turning 
point for anyone. 

Snape? A mere couple of weeks, if at all, after it happened, he's no 
traumatized lamb. He seems more upset about Lily defending James 
(and calling Snape 'ungrateful'. Ouch. *g*) than about the danger he 
was in. No, it's all about exposing James & Co for not being 'as 
wonderful as everyone thinks', about James fancying Lily.

Remus, the other victim? In SWM, we see a calm boy, worried 
about his OWLS. He jokes with his friends about werewolf questions. 
When Sirius wishes it was full moon, he says, 'darkly': "You might," 
and asks him to test him on some stuff. That is all. No 
estrangement, no near-hatred, no unforgiving anguish. Seems like 
Fandom and fanfic writers got that one SO wrong. I did too. (On an 
interesting side note, being that 99.9% of fanfic writers and 
readers seem to be women... maybe we really, really don't understand 
how the minds of teenage boys work?)

To come back to your question, maybe we overestimate the power of 
the secret, too? Snape, while not telling Lily "I was right! He IS a 
werewolf!" nevertheless presses his 'theory', as he has repeatedly 
done before. Lily? Is just not interested, even though Lupin lives 
in her House. Her reaction is rather: So? Why are you so obsessed 
with them? After all they don't use Dark Magic, like your friends do!

Clearly Lily sees this as a worse offense than sneaking out at 
night, and being friends with a werewolf. 

Perhaps the Marauders felt that since the staff was already in on 
the secret, it would not have too much of an impact if students 
found out? The adults knew, Lupin's presence was officially 
sanctioned, what could the other kids possibly do about it? The 
Marauders are already familiar with Werewolf!Lupin, they themselves 
were never all that aghast when they found out (I assume), why would 
anyone go into convulsions over it? Again, keeping in mind what a 
dangerous place Hogwarts & surroundings is, even without the 
presence of a single young werewolf in their midst. There's worse 
out in the Forbidden Forest. 

Mim: 
> But the thing is, it is canon that Dumbledore had made Snape 
promise 
> not to tell, presumably under threat of expulsion. So now the 
> school, incl. Lily who might then subconscioulsy have started to 
get 
> her hots for brave James saving her slimy friend, has a vague idea 
> that James did something noble and heroic to save Snape. Snape 
knows 
> that there were nothing noble about it though I'll give you 
possibly 
> heroic and that it was James trying to save his own hide and his 
> friends.

Lanval:
Someone, please explain that one to me. I've heard this argument for 
so long. How, if James had no idea that Sirius had told Snape (and 
Sirius would have never lied about this), and if DD/the staff had no 
idea that there was some sneaking out at night taking place during 
fifth year... did James 'save his own hide'? He was quite simply NOT 
involved, not responsible, not part of it in any way. 

No, Snape does not *know* this, and neither do we. It's Snape's 
interpretation of what happened. James, according to canon, saved 
Snape, and Remus. 

Something just occurred to me, and maybe my mind's just in complete 
confusion right now... how exactly did DD find out about the prank?

Mim:
 Sirius is not really punished. (anything short of expulsion 
> is a JOKE) Snape is made to keep the secret, threatened or 
possibly 
> magically bound so that he is not even able to utter it. And on 
top 
> of everything, the Marauders gang up on him and pants him. He 
> obviously can't do much there, he went to Dumbledore accusing them 
> of murder and got punished himself.

Lanval:
Let's keep in mind, shall we, that Snape was not punished. Not for
1. sneaking out at night, breaking school rules
2. sticking his nose in and interfering with school-approved business
3. Entering a tunnel that was clearly, absolutely, without a doubt 
off limits to all students save Remus Lupin
4. Endangering himself, and another student

Remind me again what Sirius did that DD knew about, that was against 
school rules and required expulsion? He told Snape how to get past 
the WW. Had Snape been bitten, injured, perhaps killed, then yes, 
Sirius would have been in trouble, simply because of the 
gravity of the event. But since nothing happened, why should Sirius 
be expelled? When does "you were reckless and may have killed 
someone" EVER get punished as harshly as "you were reckles and 
killed someone?"

If you want to argue this from a moral standpoint, yes, it was 
reckless, stupid, and dangerous... and Snape was even MORE stupid 
and reckless to actually follow Sirius' advice, *knowing* there was 
a WEREWOLF lurking inside!! Which has now become canon, yay. I 
didn't type my fingers to shreds for nothing, arguing for it. *g*

Mim:

> I'm not surprised that Remus didn't stop his friends from bullying 
> Snape. He didn't have any control over them really. They are 
> completely callous about reveavling his secret in SWM, out in 
> public. 

Lanval:
Huh? Canon, please, that they are 'revealing it in public'? They are 
sitting together, no one else is near, save Pensieve!Harry.

Mim:
Sirius says he's bored and wished it was the full moon... i 
> mean, lycanthropy is supposed to be this curse, right and Sirius 
is 
> saying how he would like his friend to be suffering it at the 
> moment.

Lanval:
PoA, Scholastic edition, p.354:

"And they didn't desert me at all. Instead, they did something for 
me that would make my transformations not only bearable, but the 
best times of my life...."

No further comment.

Mim:
 After he has tried to use said friend as a murder weapon. 

Lanval:
Canon, please? "Murder"? 

Mim:
> Lupin is completely pathetic, only a notch above Peter and I have 
> serious concerns about his morality. What if he had gotten someone 
> in one of his many close turns while Marauding around with the 
> others? It was a joke to the others but he knew what Lycanthropy 
was 
> like and didn't stop.
> 

Lanval:
He did not, and admits that it was wrong. 

Why do teenagers drive too fast, experiment with drugs, have unsafe 
sex, play stupid games, etc? Why do teenagers think they are in 
complete control, and immortal on top of it?

Sad. All these morally questionable kids in this world.

Mim:
> And I can't really blame Snape for trying to give hints to Lily. 
He 
> knows James is sniffing after Lily. 

Lanval:
The audacity of it! How dare he! :)

Mim:
He knows what Sirius is capable 
> of doing and treating as a mere joke. 
He knows that Remus is 
> dangerous. They are Gryffindors, charming, good in sports and the 
> rest. They have much better access to his friend and the House 
> divide is already taking her away from him. Is he a jerk for not 
> dropping Mulciber and Avery on the spot once she complains? 
Perhaps 
> but he's only a kid and friends are important esp. with enemies 
like 
> her oh, so brave housemates around.
> 

Lanval:
If Snape's *only a kid* then so are Sirius, James, and Remus.

Whether Remus was ever "good at sports" remains inconclusive.

Snape knows that Remus is dangerous? yes, if one, say, sneaked out 
on full moon nights, and followed secret instructions how to get 
past the WW. He only mentions that Potter and his friends sneak out 
at night; there is no evidence he knows that they regularly 
take Lupin for a stroll as Animagi. So much for Snape trying to 
expose them out of concern for other students' safety.

If James, Sirius and Remus and other Gryffindors have better 
*access* to Lily, how is that THEIR fault?

And yes, he is a bit of a jerk, for defending Mulciber and Avery, 
who have performed Dark Magic on a girl. Which Lily finds MUCH worse 
than the prank (and it probably was).  According to her it 
was "...evil.*Evil*, Sev!"