Of Sorting and Snape

[lizzyben04]

No: HPFGUIDX 175675

> Carol responds:
> This is Voldemort's soul we're talking about. Have you forgotten 
the
> anguish Voldemort endured when his soul came into contact with 
Harry's
> love for Sirius? Love and compassion cannot help Voldemort. They 
might
> even increase his pain. He is quite literally beyond help. Only his
> own remorse can save him.

lizzyben:

Yes, love & compassion are useless. LV is beyond help, and no one 
should even try. 

Carol:
> Emotions are not evil in this book. Note Harry's reaction when 
Molly
> gives him her brother Fabian's watch. And Harry is learning
> compassion--for Kreacher, for Draco, for Snape. It just doesn't 
come
> naturally to a boy raised as he was and who has, through most of 
the
> books, focused primarily on his own problems, his own little world,
> his own friends. 

lizzyben:

Well, when I say that, I don't mean that emotion is evil, it just 
seems like some emotions are being associated w/evil in an odd way. 
The comes because the Four Houses correspond to different emotions - 
and one House is condemned as evil. Thereby seeming to condemn those 
emotions as evil. Gryffindor is the fire house - corresponding to 
the qualities of anger, passion, courage, etc. These emotions are 
heartely embraced & approved. Slytherin is the water house - 
corresponding to qualities of emotion, healing, love, empathy, 
sadness. And these emotions are rejected by association as useless & 
even dangerous. This is how Slytherins are given the "obsessive 
love" - love as something dangerous & wrong. This is how Slytherin 
men are seen crying - crying & expressing sadness is dangerous & 
wrong. This also seems to correspond w/what Betsy HP was saying 
about how Slytherin seems to represent in some ways the feminine 
aspects that are condemned in favor of macho masculine Gryffindors. 
This is, IMO, where the *weirdness* comes from.
 

Carol:
Gradually, he learns to feel affection and respect
> for Luna and Neville, but only near the end does he learn to trust
> them and the other DA members. <snip> Seeing 
Draco
> on the tower and again forced to perform cruel deeds he doesn't 
want
> to do changes Harry's view of Draco. He doesn't say so, but, IMO, 
he
> understands him and wants to help him.)

lizzyben:

People sometimes say that there's a lack of empathy & compassion 
in these novels, & I agree. Harry does help Draco, & Goyle, but 
that's typical saving-people-thing. He's nice to Kreacher, which 
gets him a new ally. But I think of compassion as being able to put 
yourself in someone else's shoes, to see life as they see it, and 
understand their pain. We don't really see Harry doing that very 
often, although I agree that he does seem to feel compassion for 
Draco's predicament. Compassion isn't Harry's strength - he's got 
other strengths.

Carol:
> I won't repeat my other arguments about the creature under the 
chair,
> but I would like to see your responses to them. We're getting 
nowhere
> with emotional, gut reactions and rhetorical questions. Let's look 
at
> the canon, shall we?

lizzyben:

Hi Carol, I'll try to connect this better to the canon events. I do 
think that the novels seem to send a message that crying is bad. 
Other people have brought up the fact that Harry thinks Ginny is so 
great because she never cries, & she seems to react often w/anger & 
emotional explosions (hexes) instead. This is seen as a *good* thing.
Cho is often derided by the other characters for being weepy & weak -
 even though, if you think about her POV for a second, she has 
plenty of good reasons to cry - she's grieving! Moaning Myrtle is 
also an object of derision - although the murdered girl also has 
plenty of reasons to be upset. And despite all his traumas, Harry is 
never allowed, once, to cry. Ever. 

And it seems to connect back w/this weird notion of "water" 
temprament as being a bad thing. In HBP, one of the chapters is 
called "an excess of phlegm" & the kids relentlessly make fun of 
Fluer as "Phlegm". Well, the "phlegmatic temprament" is one of the 
four classical Greek personality types - and it corresponds to the 
element of water. And the "water" house is the Slytherin House. And 
the Slytherin House is evil & wrong. Just like Gryfindors seem to 
think crying is evil & wrong. In this way, normal human qualities 
are cut off & rejected. That's not *healthy*.

At the same time, stereotypical Gryfindor traits are taken to the 
nth degree - Crucios become gallant, physical courage is valued 
above all else, anger is accepted as a replacement for other 
emotions, revenge is a worthy goal, and it becomes all about how big 
& powerful your wand is. I think that the prophecy's "power that the 
Dark Lord knows not" is good example of how the message became 
subverted into something else. At first, it was about love, right? A 
mother's self-sacrificing love that defeated evil. This lead people 
to think that "love", in its Agape form, was Harry's power. But no, 
at the end it turned out that the unknown power was a super-special, 
super-powerful wand. In effect, Harry had a superior weapon. Magic 
makes Might. The fire qualities are given free reign as the water 
qualities are subverted & rejected. 

Bringing it all back to the creature stuffed under the chair. The 
good Gryffindors look at the shuddering, crying, rejected creature 
and feel repulsed by it. They assure themselves that compassion & 
love are useless qualities, and this creature simply can't be 
helped. DD tells Harry over & over, it's got nothing to do w/you, 
it's not a part of you, despite the fact that it's been a part of 
him for 16 years. That crying, weak, sad creature has nothing to do 
with you! It's evil! Reject it!! And he does. Harry cuts off that 
part of himself as evil & wrong. Just like Gryfindors have cut off 
the Slytherins as evil & wrong. Just like the Gryf heros have also 
cut off & rejected the "water" qualities of themselves in favor of 
totally overdoing the "fire" qualities that their culture values 
more. Just like, in Jungian terms, the Harry's shadow qualities have 
been rejected & purged instead of being understood or integrated 
into the personality. It's creepy creepy.


lizzyben