Snape's Request gave Harry a second chance? (Was: Snape/Dumbledore thingummy)

[frumenta]

No: HPFGUIDX 175811

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>

> 
> Alla:
> 
> Snape was indirectly trying to save all the Potters while he 
> directly asked Dumbledore to save Lily only? Isn't Snape intent 
what 
> matters to determine what Snape wanted to do? IMO of course.

Mim:
In both cases Snape only cared about Lily. She was the one he knew 
and loved, the other was her husband who he'd always hated and her 
kid he didn't really know or cared about. When he asked Voldemort, 
he asked for Lily only. The moment he went to Dumbledore no matter 
who he begged for Dumbledore would try to help all the Potters. 
Indirectly, unwittingly Snape was trying to get help for all the 
Potters there. Probably not because he gave a damn about anyone 
other than Lily but that he didn't really trust Voldemort to keep 
his word.
> 

> 
> Alla:
> 
> Snape did not have to do anything? Well of course not. He after 
all 
> already **did** something - he delivered prophecy to Voldemort. He 
> did not have to come to Dumbledore.

Mim:

And Dumbledore did not have to let him go to Voldemort. He's a 
powerful wizard and all, he couldn't have stopped Snape? Somehow, I 
doubt it. Either way, Snape did not have to betray the other Death 
Eaters and start working for Dumbledore to repay Dumbledore for 
protecting the Potters. Dumbledore got that out of him, basically 
putting Lily's life on the  balance. It's like... you're a crminal 
and you go to the police and tell them that some mafia boss wants to 
kill an entire family. And then the police tells you... oh, ok, 
we'll see if we'll help. What are you going to do for us so that 
we'll help that family?
> 

> "If she means so much to you," said Dumbledore, "surely Lord 
> Voldemort will spare her? Could you not ask for mercy for the 
> mother, in exchange for the son?
> 
> "I have - I have asked him" - p.677, DH.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I read it as Snape indeed **wanting** Harry dead in exchange for 
> Lily.

Mim:
Snape cannot ask for the son to be spared. He cannot because that's 
the whole point of the prophesy. It's not like Voldie is like "Hmm, 
who should I kill, Lily or the kid?" The kid is dead either way and 
all Snape is asking is for Lily to be spared.  And then Snape goes 
to Dumbledore. And he knows on some level that whether he pleads for 
Lily, James, Harry or the Potters' cat Dumbledore *has* to help them.
> 
> 
> "You disgust me," said Dumbledore, and Harry had never heard so 
much 
> contempt in his voice. Snape seemed to shrink a little. "You do 
not 
> care, then, about the deaths of her husband and child? "They can 
> die, as long as you have what you want?"
> 
> Snape said nothing, but merely looked up at Dumbledore.
> 
> "Hide them all, then," he croaked. "Keep her - them - safe. 
Please" -
>  p.677 - 678
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> It does not look to me that Snape gives a fig about them dying, 
> personally and he disgusts me in that scene just as much as 
> Dumbledore.
> 
> And even when he asks to hide them all, he says to keep her safe.
> 
> 
> I remember so many preDH arguments that Snape came to Dumbledore 
> because he could not bear to see Voldemort killing the baby.
> 
> 
> Looks like he could bear it quite well to me.
> 

Mim:

Like Dumbledore is some paragon if virtue himself and he should have 
any business making moral judgments on others... 

And for the last time, yes, Snape didn't give a damn about James and 
Harry. I know that, I'm ok with that as a Snapefan. I don't know who 
said that he turned because he couldn't bear the thought of a baby 
dying. That's ridiculous. If he couldn't bear the thought of a baby 
dying he wouldn't have given the Prophecy to Voldemort in the first 
place.

Alla:
> Oh, I just wanted to briefly answer Judy with my opinion why 
> Voldemort wanted to spare Lily. IMO he simply liked and valued 
Snape 
> too much and would have done a lot for him. After all he asks Lily 
> not once but three times to step aside.

I kinda doubt that. He still didn't just incapacitate her and kill 
Harry anyway. He didn't truly keep his word as Snape suspected.

But he did value Snape and seemed to take an interest in Snape's 
love life... After all, once Lily was gone he asked Snape and was 
reassured that there were plenty of worthier witches for him. I'm 
just wondering about the time frame of that conversation since once 
Lily was dead, Voldie got hit with that rebounding AK. Since he 
didn't reveal himself to Snape when he was on the back of Quirrel's 
head and he wasn't really in CoS and PoA... I can only assume that 
once Snape appeared back in the fray at the end of GoF Voldie was 
eager to ask him how his love life had been...


Mim (not Dumbledore's biggest fan)