Of Sorting and Snape

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 175838


> Magpie:
> 
> > I still don't see what that has to do with the metaphor 
> > that's being put forward, that Grimmauld Place being cozy 
> > while the Trio lives there shows the beauty of the 
> > Slytherin nature. Yeah, it's great that Kreacher got 
> > to tell his secret and that we found out Regulus did 
> > something brave. I'm still not seeing the transformation 
> > of the house reflected in Slytherin or Slytherins.
> 
> houyhnhnm:
> 
> One more post on this subject, not because I'm going to 
> change your opinion (or need to change your opinion).  
> Just because I'm still intrigued by the notion of 
> gift-giving as an aspect of Slytherin culture. Yes, 
> other wizards give gifts (because I can see someone 
> making that objection).  They give presents for birthdays 
> and Christmas.  They have people over to dinner ("Molly's 
> making meatballs").  But among Slytherins, I see the 
> offering of food and the giving of gifts as having a 
> ritualistic, symbolic aspect beyond that of the meaning 
> of these behaviors for Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, or Ravenclaw 
> families.  I see it as an extension of the Slytherin 
> patronage system.  Slytherin interactions are transactions.
> 
> Horace Slughorn is the best example.  He offers pies and 
> pheasant to the students he's invited to his compartment 
> on the train.  He offers to loan McLaggen a book.  He 
> gives a party with huge silver platters of food carried 
> around by house elves.  He brings bottles to Aragog's 
> funeral.  He even feels the need to offer refreshment 
> after being roused out of bed to make an antidote for 
> the love potion Ron has accidently imbibed.  I can't 
> think of an instance where he gives a gift, but he 
> certainly receives a lot of them.
> 
> So I see Harry's sudden inspiration to offer Regulus's 
> locket to Kreacher as a very Slytherin thing to do.  
> And of course it's quid pro quo.  It wouldn't be 
> Slytherin-like if it weren't.  Kreacher's reaction 
> is very Slytherin-like, too.  He responds with food.

Magpie:
It seems a bit of a stretch to me to be reading in a subtle Slytherin 
culture of gift-giving here when it could just be normal behavior 
that seemed to fit their scenes. Slughorn especially is all about one 
hand washes the other. If he gives you something, you owe him. He's 
also a glutton. If his guests are eating he's eating. 

Harry is holding the fake locket in his hand and Kreacher just told 
him the story. It seems like an obvious gesture to make. Harry hands 
the thing to Kreacher and it's almost comical how OTT his reaction is-
-doesn't Ron even comment, "Too much, mate?" It reads to me like most 
of Harry's interactions with other House Elves, saying more about 
them than about a gift-giving culture Kreacher knows from living with 
Slytherins (as does his natural inclination to offer to cook for 
everyone). 

houyhnhnm:
> 
> There are two kinds of growth, it seems to me.  There 
> is the soul-searching self-confrontation of Lizzy Bennet 
> coming to terms with her prejudice or Pip facing his 
> selfishness. 
 Then there is a slow kind of evolution that 
> takes place without the subject even being conscious of 
> it.  Like Snape, who may still tell himself he's doing 
> it all for Lily, but who the reader can see has evolved 
> way beyond that motive ("Lately, only those whom I could 
> not save.")> 
> Likewise I think Harry grows toward an understanding of 
> a worldview different from his own by experiencing it, 
> without necessarily being conscious of it, without a 
> "moment of truth" or a "dark night of the soul".  One 
> of those experiences is of the Slytherin brand of courage 
> when he walks cold-bloodedly to his own destruction.  
> I think another may be when he participates in the 
> Slytherin ritual exchange of gifts and food.

Magpie:
So Harry doesn't have the moment of actual realization and 
humiliation where he's forced to look at his own behavior, like 
Lizzie and Pip. We know that. I know your goal isn't to change my 
mind, but this second kind of change reads a bit like writing in a 
kind of change that isn't there. The Slytherin ritual exchange of 
gifts and food isn't even established canon to begin with, and I 
don't see it as a sign that Harry's dong anything Slytherin or really 
having much to do with them at all. (Though Harry has certainly shown 
Slytehrin *qualities* before too--the qualities are cool when Harry 
uses them.) His walk to his own destruction (DD's plan) doesn't seem 
all that Slytherin to me. It's courage. And he's faced his own 
destruction before, also with courage. 

 houyhnhnm
> This doesn't mean Harry will ever have a sudden 
> realization--"Aha, now I understand Slytherins".  It 
> may mean that when his son is sorted into the House or 
> when his nephew marries a Malfoy, he will be prepared to 
> deal with it in a constructive rather than a destructive way.

Magpie:
*When* his son is sorted into the house? I see no reason to believe 
that kid would be sorted into the house. He seems as pure as Tiny 
Tim, and already knows to ask for "not Slytherin" to soothe his 
fears. Nor have any of his nephews married Malfoys, so neither of 
these things say anything to me about the story. But Harry would 
never have dealt with those things in a destructive way that I can 
imagine. He's not Mrs. Black who'd be blasting his kids off the 
family tree for marrying the wrong person. I'm sure if he had a 
family member who married a Slytherin it'd be handled with the type 
of humor JKR probably used for the Weasley's awful Slytherin cousin. 
(A cousin whose personality actually did mark her as Slytherin, 
unlike little Albus' seems to in the epilogue.) Harry's never been 
about attacking Slytherin. He treats his inferiors okay.

-m