Of Sorting and Snape

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 175862

> Magpie:
> I still don't see what that has to do with the metaphor that's being 
> put forward, that Grimmauld Place being cozy while the Trio lives 
> there shows the beauty of the Slytherin nature. Yeah, it's great that 
> Kreacher got to tell his secret and that we found out Regulus did 
> something brave. I'm still not seeing the transformation of the house 
> reflected in Slytherin or Slytherins. The Blacks don't even resolve 
> their family issues since they're all dead. (Harry watched the 
> Crouches disintegrate as well.) We know Mrs. Black was wrong for 
> zapping people off her tree--Harry already knew that.

Pippin:
The Blacks aren't all dead, just extinct in the male line, as canon
makes clear by  giving us the terminology. Teddy and Scorpius 
survive. Harry came by the house lawfully, not by forcing out its
original owners, so I don't see how an ethnic cleansing metaphor
applies. Presumably some day Teddy's and Scorpius's descendants
will occupy the house, all wizard families being interrelated.

The transformation of the GP shows that the transformation of
Slytherin *could* happen, IMO. 
 
> 
> Pippin:
> What I meant is that when the House is restored to what its Slytherin
> founders intended it to be, it's not creepy, gloomy and full of 
> traps. It's warm, gracious and welcoming. 
> 
> Magpie:
> Gloomy and creepy was more a factor of nobody living there for years. 

Pippin:
Ahem. Kreacher was living there. He could have restored it,  if he had
not been distraught over his inability to fulfill Regulus's command and
Mrs. Black's deterioration. He restores it according to his understanding
of what it is supposed to be like, which had to come from the Blacks.

I accept your correction about the traps, they are intrinsic and in fact
the Order adds traps of their own. But Kreacher was able to change his 
mind about who the wrong sort are, so  presumably Slytherins can too. 


Pippin:
By the end of the story Harry knows that parseltongue is not the
mark of a Dark Wizard, and by extension neither is membership in
Slytherin House.  Nonetheless I'm sure there are still people who
get the shivers when they hear about parseltongue, have a gut
level distrust of Slytherins and are okay with it. The question is, 
does Harry still feel that way?

Harry's introspection is not missing from the story. On the night
of the celebration, though all he wants to do is sleep, he takes
Ron and Hermione to Dumbledore's office, and there, in the 
presence of the headmaster portraits, he tells them "slowly and
painstakingly" IIRC, everything he saw in the pensieve and everything
that happened in the forest. He can't be doing that for himself. He
only wants to sleep. It's not like Ron and Hermione
are begging him to know. He does it without magic, even though 
the pensieve is right there, even though one of those memories
is one he can hardly bear to think about. 

I've got to see that as Harry feeling that Hermione and Ron need to
know, ASAP, the truth of what Snape  and Narcissa did. The
chorus of headmasters needs to know too, though they know part
of the story already. 

In my tradition, the honor you give to the dead is supposed to be
the most selfless and purest act of goodness because the dead can't
give you anything back. It's really hard for me to see Harry wanting
Snape's story to be told, or naming his son after Snape, as a cheap 
gesture. 
  

Magpie:
> Slytherins and Slytherin did not transform like the 
> Black House under Kreacher's renewed cleaning and it was never 
> intended to be warm, gracious or inviting to Mudbloods. 

Pippin:
But that's not true, is it? The House was not enchanted so that it could
only be owned by a pureblood, although it could have been. It
isn't enchanted to exclude mudbloods, it's enchanted to exclude
whoever the householder decides are enemies. The basilisk is the
same -- it hat nothing personal against mudbloods. 

Magpie:
>Not one of  them rises to even the level of someone you'd really want to be 
> friends with.

Pippin:
Okay, I think I see what you're getting at here. But transforming the
culture of Slytherin, like transforming the culture of the House Elves,
is something only the Slytherins and the House Elves can do. What
Harry did is win them some space and freedom in which they can
attempt it should they choose to do so. He can cajole and persuade
and use his considerable influence, but in the end they're going to
have to march to the arena themselves. 

I  wouldn't be comfortable if JKR showed Harry
 trying to make the Slytherins change, just like I wasn't
comfortable with Hermione's efforts to pressure the House Elves
into seeking their freedom. 

I'm really unhappy  with the comparison of the House Elves to pets.
Some Slytherins believe, mistakenly IMO, that the natural order of 
things is that some should be slaves and some should be masters. 
Some House Elves, mistakenly, believe the same thing. I don't 
think it should make either group subhuman in our eyes. 

I wouldn't want to be friends with any of the House Elves, their
servility would drive me crazy. The Slytherin assumptions
about superiority would bug me too.  But Harry counted Dobby as his 
friend, and Lily counted Snape as her best friend, until civil war tore 
them asunder. Like we said back in the sixties, different strokes for
different folks.

But you don't have to be tolerant towards your friends, the whole
point of tolerance is showing kindness and respect towards people
you wouldn't care to have as friends, or who wouldn't care to have
you.

> Magpie:
> He saves the lives of people he doesn't care for. I don't see him 
> treating them with particular kindness or respect or feeling that he 
> needs to; maybe I'm forgetting what you're referring to.

Pippin:
I'm thinking about Dobby in CoS and GoF, when he thought Dobby was just
plain weird. He didn't want to socialize with Dobby, he couldn't be
comfortable with him, he certainly didn't expect that Dobby would ever
be of any use,  but he still was kind and respectful. 

Pippin:
Realizing that Dobby's last act was to disobey Harry's order never to
try to save his life again